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12v charging capacity and max level 1 charge current on 120V

Discussion in 'Kia Niro' started by ElectroDad, Nov 8, 2021.

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  1. Nov 8, 2021 #1
    ElectroDad

    ElectroDad New Member

    2022 Kia Niro EV SX Touring, Vancouver Island
    Two questions in one post
    • We have a Prius v and one option for emergency AC power is to buy a 1000w 12v DC to 120v AC inverter, hook it up to the 12v battery and use the car as a generator. 1000w was the capacity of the high to low voltage charging system on the Prius. Does anyone know the capacity of the hi to low voltage charging system in the 2022 Niro EV?
    • I'd like to use our Niro EV to take a sizable trip that will end at a campground with TT-30 outlets (120v, 30 amp). Hypothetically this would mean a max charge of 24amps (80% of 30amps) however the J1772 spec seems to have an upper charge limit of 16 amps for level 1. Does anyone know if the 2022 Niro EV will charge at more that 16amps when level 1 charging? I'm looking at the OpenEVSE which can be set to 24amps on Level 1.
     

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  2. Nov 8, 2021 #2
    R P

    R P Well-Known Member

    Vancouver, BC, Canada 2023 Solterra Tech Pkg
  3. Nov 8, 2021 #3
    Fastnf

    Fastnf Well-Known Member

    Tehachapi Calif, 2023 F150 Lightning Pro
    The thread the RP listed will provide all of the information you need for TT-30 charging.

    A number of Level 2 EVSE will also work as level 1 EVSE. Check the EVSE voltage range. My GE DuroStation will operate on any voltage between 80v and 270volts. The link RP provided gives details on how to set up for 120v operation I have run it on 120 volts with no issue. It is amp selectable so I can set it for 12,16,24 or 32 amps. My recommendation would be to find either a Level 2 EVSE with the appropriate voltage range (less than 120v) and use it on your trip. Either get an adjustable amp EVSE or a 24 amp fixed EVSE.

    Here is a link to hooking up an inverter to a Kona Electric which is the twin of the E-Niro. I have it set up to run 100 amps for a max of 1200 watts out. If you draw more than that you will pop a fuse in the car. I have run the inverter as an emergency back up power on my house with no issues as long as I stay under1200 watts

    https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/emergency-battery-backup-utility-mode.8589/
     
  4. Nov 9, 2021 #4
    StuartE

    StuartE New Member

    I don't think you'll have a problem electrically, but my concern would be the heating you'll get at the terminals.
     
  5. Nov 9, 2021 #5
    BillX

    BillX New Member

    Did someone confirm that car actually charged at more than 12amps at 120v? Maybe setting was put higher on charger but car did not pull beyond 12 or 16 amps?

    Edit: It seems like someone verified that on that link on a Kona. I am surprised. Not sure if I would consider doing something like that...
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2021

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  6. Nov 9, 2021 #6
    Fastnf

    Fastnf Well-Known Member

    Tehachapi Calif, 2023 F150 Lightning Pro

    Yes I have charged my car at 24 amps on 120 volts using my GE DuroStation Level 2 EVSE set to 24 amps and wired for 120volt. The only anomaly I found was that the car still show it charging indicated at 240 volts on the display however the KW shown are correct for 120 volt and 32 amps. I believe that the 240volt indication comes from the software communication from the level 2 EVSE to the Kona. My EVSE has an amp and Kw display and it was showing 120 volts between 22 and 23 amps and 2.7kw. I found the opposite anomaly when I wired my level one EVSE with 240 volts. The Kona indicated 120v0lts in that case even though I was getting twice the KW of the rated 120 volt.

    The EVSE will either limit charging to the max that the EVSE is capable of or limit it to the max the car says it will accept.

    Basically you are using only one leg of the split phase power. Normal operation is 24 amps with 240 volts between the two hot legs with no use of the neutral. In the 120 volt operation you use 32 amps with 120 volts between one hot leg and the neutral. The other hot leg is not used so you see half the kw in this arrangement

    That said I only did it once to see if it was possible. I have the adapter for my Nema 1450 plug to a tt-30 (not to be confused with an RV adapter which is wired differently and will not work) but I have never used the adapter on the road as I have always been able to find access to 240 volt Your experience could be different. (YMMV)

    I am not recommending it be done I am only saying it has been done and works on the Kona.
     
  7. Jan 30, 2022 #7
    David Lau

    David Lau New Member

    Have you ever tried 240v to the standard Edison plug on the factory 120v charger? Sounds crazy I know, but Tesla chargers will take 240v on theirs, my son proved it. (I have one Edison plug in a second garage wired for an air compressor at 240v. It would be very convenient!)
     
  8. Jan 30, 2022 #8
    Fastnf

    Fastnf Well-Known Member

    Tehachapi Calif, 2023 F150 Lightning Pro

    Yes I and a number of others have run the factory 120 volt charger on 240 volts and it works fine. Still only delivers 12 amps but at twice the KW's. I have also run my 240 volt level 2 on 120 volts and that worked as well at 1/2 the KW. The only oddity is that the charger will show up on the car only at is design voltage not the applied voltage. So if you want to lower the amps from the car and your running 240 volts on the factory charger you have to change the setting in the 120 volt setting. I am not advocating this, just saying it does work. I also don't know if there is any long term reliability issues for the charger on 240 volt as I have only tested short term and not done any long term testing
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2022
    David Lau likes this.
  9. Feb 7, 2022 #9
    ElectroDad

    ElectroDad New Member

    2022 Kia Niro EV SX Touring, Vancouver Island
    Thanks for the all the useful information. I can also confirm (without recommending that it be done) that the factory Kia EVSE (charger) for our 2022 Niro works on 240V. This was a lifesaver during a recent stretch of snow when the car was parked at the top of the driveway and we were making frequent longer trips. This allowed us to charge at twice the speed of the 120 V EVSE.

    I built a 14-50 adapter from a construction grade female repair plug and an old dryer cord with the neutral pin hacksawed off (not the ground pin) and then used good quality, construction grade 120 V extension cords to get the power to the EVSE. No, this is not to code as the incorrect NEMA plug styles were used but everything was rated for the voltage and current being drawn. I also gave the other household members the "Do not plug your stuff in here!" lecture. It is better to use extension cords without the neon power indicator in the plug as they may burn out with the higher voltage. Mine seemed to survive but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

    As is frequently mentioned, this is NOT an RV style adapter. Just so it's all in one place, the adapter cord would join
    -240V L1 to 120V hot
    -240V L2 to 120V neutral
    -240V ground to 120V ground
    -240V neutral not used

    Use a multi-meter or something to confirm your pins/wire colours.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022

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  10. Feb 7, 2022 #10
    David Lau

    David Lau New Member

    I wired in a good hospital-grade (orange) 20A outlet to the 240v circuit that normally serves my older 30A 1772 charger. As stated, the car charges at 12 amps on both legs, twice as fast compared to 120v. I find if you're in the car when it starts to charge the dash display reads charge time properly, at 2.7kw, estimating 11.5 hours to gain 40%. Also as stated, the Connect app isn't as smart, and appears to estimate recharge times based on a proper 4.2kW (minimum current) or 7.2kW (maximum) setting.
     

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