Successful Clarity Back-up Power

[KentuckyKen]

This is roughly the plan I have too. I'm waiting for the electrician to call to get this started. I learned propane tanks can be filled even when the source of the propane does not have electric power. I like the idea of using propane that can be stored indefinitely. I only need about 3,500 watts. I don't want to oversize which would use more fuel.

All I want to do is power the refrigerator (surge 1,200w), a few lights, the garage door opener, and perhaps a one room electric 1500w space heater if the temperature drops too far.

I'm reading this thread because someone mentioned you're not supposed to charge a plug-in car with a generator. Does anyone know if Honda has that restriction? The power should be clean coming out of an inverter/generator. I doubt if I'd try to charge the car with a generator but I'd just like to know if it is acceptable. Should be able to fully charge a Clarity in about 4-5 hours depending on the size of the generator.

Wouldn’t it be more efficient cost and energy wise to just run the Clarity on gas instead of charging from generator power during a blackout?

Also check our Sams Club. Mine has a smaller dual fuel generator but it wasn’t a pure sine wave inverter type.
Champion brand 3,500 Watt for $350, wheel kit extra. Got good reviews.

 

[jdonalds]

Wouldn’t it be more efficient cost and energy wise to just run the Clarity on gas instead of charging from generator power during a blackout?

Also check our Sams Club. Mine has a smaller dual fuel generator but it wasn’t a pure sine wave inverter type.
Champion brand 3,500 Watt for $350, wheel kit extra. Got good reviews.

Ken, That would work if the Clarity still had gas. Also only charging to 57%.

I'll check into Sams Club. Thanks.

 

[M.M.]

I'm reading this thread because someone mentioned you're not supposed to charge a plug-in car with a generator. Does anyone know if Honda has that restriction? The power should be clean coming out of an inverter/generator. I doubt if I'd try to charge the car with a generator but I'd just like to know if it is acceptable. Should be able to fully charge a Clarity in about 4-5 hours depending on the size of the generator.

This restriction would have to do with how good the power output on the generator is; if it's very ugly it could damage the charger built into the car.

On one extreme end if it was a crappy inverter-generator\with a modified-sine inverter, that could definitely fry the car's charger, and at least some cars will flat out reject the power and refuse to charge. Not sure about the Clarity, but even if it would charge off of power like this, I wouldn't let it anywhere near it, or electronics in general. On the other end, if it's a poorly-regulated alternator-generator, the voltage or frequency could end up out of whack, or the AC could be very noisy, which could be bad for the charger, and again some cars may flat-out refuse to charge to protect themselves. I remember many years ago the recommendation was to never run electronics off of an alternator-generator because of the crappy power.

Now, a <em>good</em> inverter generator with a very clean sine wave output should have no trouble charging a Clarity or any other car. Likewise an alternator-generator with very stable regulated output. Certainly my clarity had no trouble charging off of my SMA inverter's standalone output. The only question then (like KentuckyKen said), is whether there's any point in it with a Clarity if you can still get your hands on gasoline.

 

[M.M.]

One small correction, I found the reference to the DC-DC converter; it's apparently significantly larger than I thought at 2300W.

 

[Landshark]

FWIW: there is no specific wording against using a generator to charge the HV battery in the 10 pages that cover the topic in the manual.

Honda also states that their inverter generators provide power as reliable as the power from your home outlets and clean enough to power the most sensitive electronic equipment. Inexpensive generators can be quite loud and may not provide clean power. Noisy generators can attract unwanted attention during power outages.

It definitely makes sense, if possible, to use HV+ to get the batteries up to ~60%, rather than use a generator. I’ve only used it once and it took about 30 minutes. A generator that only supplies 120v will take 12 hours to fully charge, just like a 120v wall outlet.

Manufacturers list fuel consumption data based on a given load for each generator. From that, calculations can be made to determine the amount of fuel required to handle a given situation. I’d be less concerned about a propane valve failure and more concerned about taking the proper measures to be prepared.

 

[M.M.]

Honda also states that their inverter generators provide power as reliable as the power from your home outlets and clean enough to power the most sensitive electronic equipment. Inexpensive generators can be quite loud and may not provide clean power. Noisy generators can attract unwanted attention during power outages.

Just to clarify, when I said "noisy AC" I wasn't talking about audible noise, I was talking about noise and spikes on the electrical signal coming from the generator, which is what I'd worry about, in addition to more broadly unstable voltage or frequency.

Tolerance for risk is of course relative for each person, but I probably wouldn't plug my car into a small household-sized alternator generator without first putting a scope on it to make sure it wasn't doing something wonky, and would need to have some faith in the manufacturer of a pure-sine inverter generator to not check first.

Not to say that home generators aren't <em>also</em> usually really noisy to the ears. A neighbor was running one during the recent blackout and having to listen to that dang thing was more annoying than the power being out.

 

[CyberDyneSystems]

Thank you so much for posting this.
I had plans to try a similar set up with my Prius Prime, but traded it for the Clarity and had not seen any one try it yet on the Clarity. I am very excited by your success!

 

[Ceetee]

At which terminals would you guys recommend connecting an inveter to and order of operations?

 

[RickSE]

I’ve found this thread fascinating because I’ve been thinking of getting a backup generator but the overall cost is daunting vs the average number of days I’d really need to use it. Hooking an inverter to the clarity and using the engine to power my refrigerator, heater and sump pump just made this car another $7k cheaper if I can get this to work once you electrical engineers show me how to do it!

 

[Landshark]

Just to clarify, when I said "noisy AC" I wasn't talking about audible noise, I was talking about noise and spikes on the electrical signal coming from the generator, which is what I'd worry about, in addition to more broadly unstable voltage or frequency.

Understood. I was simply pointing out that the low budget generators can be loud. Like the one your neighbor has, for instance.

Someone earlier, mentioned being concerned about a propane valve breaking in a 9.0 earthquake. That concern would not prevent me from having a supply of propane on hand.

 

[Mowcowbell]

I’ve found this thread fascinating because I’ve been thinking of getting a backup generator but the overall cost is daunting vs the average number of days I’d really need to use it. Hooking an inverter to the clarity and using the engine to power my refrigerator, heater and sump pump just made this car another $7k cheaper if I can get this to work once you electrical engineers show me how to do it!

$7k? I have a home backup with a 7500watt generator, 10 circuit transfer switch and cable for less than $2K. It runs everything on 10 circuits in my house including refrigerator, microwave, most of the house lighting, and the furnace fan (I have natural gas heat).

 

[RickSE]

$7k? I have a home backup with a 7500watt generator, 10 circuit transfer switch and cable for less than $2K. It runs everything on 10 circuits in my house including refrigerator, microwave, most of the house lighting, and the furnace fan (I have natural gas heat).

Just going to Home Depot or Costco would put me out $3k to $4k. From what I read the installation is about equal to the purchase price.

 

[Mowcowbell]

Just going to Home Depot or Costco would put me out $3k to $4k. From what I read the installation is about equal to the purchase price.

Oh, you must be talking about a Generac whole home backup that will come on automatically if a power outage is detected. My $2K solution requires me to wheel out the generator, connect it to the exterior outlet that connects to my 10 circuit transfer switch, then fire up the generator. Champion generator $800 at Tractor Supply, 10 circuit transfer switch $400, $300 for an electrician to install it. The generator can run on gasoline or propane.

 

[RickSE]

Oh, you must be talking about a Generac whole home backup that will come on automatically if a power outage is detected. My $2K solution requires me to wheel out the generator, connect it to the exterior outlet that connects to my 10 circuit transfer switch, then fire up the generator. Champion generator $800 at Tractor Supply, 10 circuit transfer switch $400, $300 for an electrician to install it. The generator can run on gasoline or propane.

Exactly. I was looking at something to tie into a natural gas line so that I didn’t need to store and haul gas. I like the idea of a self propelled 7 gallon gas can!

 

[M.M.]

At which terminals would you guys recommend connecting an inveter to and order of operations?

Terminals: Wherever on or immediately adjacent to the 12V battery you can find a solid point of contact with plenty of surface area. There may be a more clever location elsewhere, but I was just aiming for underneath the two main nuts that hold the main wires onto the battery. There is enough threads above that and a bit of room, so a lug should fit stacked with the car's lugs.

Order: Doesn't really matter, just connect to the inverter first and turn the inverter off before connecting and use an inline fuse near the battery just in case. I've heard reccomendations to do the negative first so you can't connect the other cable to the chassis (which is all on the negative terminal), but if the inverter is switched off it shouldn't matter.

I’ve found this thread fascinating because I’ve been thinking of getting a backup generator but the overall cost is daunting vs the average number of days I’d really need to use it. Hooking an inverter to the clarity and using the engine to power my refrigerator, heater and sump pump just made this car another $7k cheaper if I can get this to work once you electrical engineers show me how to do it!

Refrigerator, Clarity is just about the right size. Sump pump, if it's a ¼ HP or smaller one that only draws a few hundred watts, should also be fine.

Heater, though, not going to happen, you need to buy a larger dedicated generator for that. And that'll be true regardless of whether it's a portable resistance heater (probably ~1200W) or the blower on a central gas furnace. Or use a catalytic propane heater, but I hear those stink, somewhat literally.

The Clarity is a great solution for rare/catastrophe-level emergency power, but only for small loads.

 

[Dan Ethington]

I'm surprised no one mentioned or tried this. To keep the car running and lock it..
1. Leave car running
2. With keyfob outside car close driver door
3. Use emergency key to manually lock from outside.
4. Car will stay running and be locked, if windows are up of course.
5. Unlock with manual key. Remote won't work.

I learned this trick in hot az to keep air conditioning running while making short stops to convenience stores or fast food.

 

[The Gadgeteer]

Because we have so many electronics in all aspects of our life these days I recommend whatever generator or inverter you purchase to spend the extra and get one with true sine wave AC output.

 

[Mowcowbell]

Of all places, I found a 2000w inverter generator at Aldi (!). $259. It will run my 10 circuit transfer switch, as long as I don't use the microwave. Far more fuel efficient than my gas guzzling Champion 7500watt generator.

 

[Landshark]

That’s like comparing a 1.5L 4 cylinder engine to a 5.0L V8. Have you tried running 2, 15K btu air conditioners on the 2000?

I wasn’t able to find specific fuel consumption data for the Chinese models, however, here is some data on comparable Honda models.

Honda EU2000i will consume .297 gal/hr at full load (1800w)

Honda EU7000i will consume .283 gal/hr at 1/4 load (1375w)

While the 7000i may consume a bit more fuel at 1800w than the 2000i, it will also run for 15 hours or more as compared to the 3.2 hours of the 2000i. That would be 2 fill ups per 24 hour period compared to 8 with the smaller generator.

Of all places, I found a 2000w inverter generator at Aldi (!). $259. It will run my 10 circuit transfer switch, as long as I don't use the microwave. Far more fuel efficient than my gas guzzling Champion 7500watt generator.

 

[Mowcowbell]

That’s like comparing a 1.5L 4 cylinder engine to a 5.0L V8. Have you tried running 2, 15K btu air conditioners on the 2000?

I wasn’t able to find specific fuel consumption data for the Chinese models, however, here is some data on comparable Honda models.

Honda EU2000i will consume .297 gal/hr at full load (1800w)

Honda EU7000i will consume .283 gal/hr at 1/4 load (1375w)

While the 7000i may consume a bit more fuel at 1800w than the 2000i, it will also run for 15 hours or more as compared to the 3.2 hours of the 2000i. That would be 2 fill ups per 24 hour period compared to 8 with the smaller generator.

My 10 circuit transfer switch doesn't power any 240v appliances... just 120v appliances. I'm talking inexpensive items... that Honda 7000i costs $4500. At that price range, I'm more than halfway to a 22 kW Generac whole home system that will run everything.