First billing cycle on my peak/off-peak Electric plan - and my annual savings vs. ICE

[FloridaSun]

So, I switched electric plans to save on EV charging a little over a month ago. Today, I got my first bill with the new plan.. My electric cost actually went DOWN from last year when I didn't have an EV..

08/20/2019 Utilities Bill $237.66
08/21/2018 Utilities Bill $251.53

I'm in Florida, so my electric consumption is the highest in the summer months..
So, effectively, charging the EV has not increased my electric bill. My consumption was 250 kwh higher than the previous year but due to the change in pricing, the bill went down.
Even when considering the cost of charging the EV at my nightly rate of 5.006 cents per kwh, I'm consuming less than $350 per year for electricity driving 30k miles per year.
Before the Kona, I was drving my F150 Crew Cab Pickup truck to work. I got about 18 mpg on it. 30000 miles/18 mpg = 1667 gallons of gas. Average price in the last 12 months was $2.50 per gallon in my area. 1667 X $2.50 = $4167.5 for gas per year.
Now, in the Kona, I use an average of 4.7 miles/kwh (in summer, will be less in winter here in Florida). 30000 miles / 4.7 miles/kwh = 6383 kwh use per year. At my electric rate of 0.05006, the total cost of charging for 30k miles is $319.53.. Let's add a little for charger losses etc... let's say $350 for 30k miles
$4167.50 - $350 = $3817.50 annual savings and that at the low gas cost in Florida.

Now, compared to a ICE Kona which gets probably about 30 mpg, the savings would be $2150 per year.. The ICE Kona SEL MSRP is $24k while the Kona Electric SEL is $36950. However, after tax credit, the Kona Electric is actually $7500 less, $29450.
So, the price difference effectively is only $5450.
At $2150 savings per year, it takes less than 3 years to recover the difference and from there on, you are winning. (and that's at the low cost of gas in Florida).

 

[FlbrkMike]

I'm just about at the end of my third billing cycle since getting my Kona EV. Below are some interesting, back of the napkin, comparisons.
We are with San Diego Gas and Electric and switched from a tiered rate (no TOU but rate goes up as you use more each month - i.e., tiers) to a TOU rate designed for EV owners. Not a cheap as Florida, but at $0.09/kWh from midnight until 6:00 am it represents a huge decrease in rate.

I've compared the monthly usage and charges for the June, July and August periods. I've included the kWh usage, total charges and average $/kWh. August is an estimate because I'm three days short, I just multiplied the total I'm updating daily on a spreadsheet by 1.1 for the estimate. We're using a lot less this year because last year was really, really, hot around here. But you can see I was paying an average of about $0.26/kWh during June and July but it went up to $0.39/kWh during August, where we had a $400 bill even with our 5 kW PV system. I actually got an energy credit for the first two months this year because my PV is putting electricity into the grid at peak ($0.52/kW) and off-peak ($0.28/kWh) rates when we're using less than the total output, but I'm only paying $0.09/kWh for all the power I'm using at night. Another advantage is our 8 kWh storage battery that discharges during the peak period to minimize our $0.52 usage, while also charging up at $0.09/kWh.

6/25/2018
255 kWh
$66.21
$0.26/kWh

6/24/19
71 kWh
-$32.07 (energy credit)


7/25/18
416 kWh
$113.07
$0.27/kWh

7/24/19
190 kWh
-$33.62 (energy credit)


8/23/18
1,022 kWh
$403.85
$0.39/kWh

8/24/19
559 kWh (estimate)
$79.58 (estimate)
$0.14/kWh

 

[FlbrkMike]

Here's another (somewhat simplified) calculation for comparison
Using the following assumptions:
$0.09/kWh electric rate assumption
40 mpg ICE mileage assumption
5.0 miles per kWh assumption

$0.09 x 40 / 5 = $0.72 per gallon equivalent cost.

If you change the mpg assumption to 30 mpg then you get $0.54 per gallon

This, of course, doesn't take into account the charging efficiency of the car. But it would be easy to put it in there.

 

[FloridaSun]

I'm just about at the end of my third billing cycle since getting my Kona EV. Below are some interesting, back of the napkin, comparisons.
We are with San Diego Gas and Electric and switched from a tiered rate (no TOU but rate goes up as you use more each month - i.e., tiers) to a TOU rate designed for EV owners. Not a cheap as Florida, but at $0.09/kWh from midnight until 6:00 am it represents a huge decrease in rate.

I've compared the monthly usage and charges for the June, July and August periods. I've included the kWh usage, total charges and average $/kWh. August is an estimate because I'm three days short, I just multiplied the total I'm updating daily on a spreadsheet by 1.1 for the estimate. We're using a lot less this year because last year was really, really, hot around here. But you can see I was paying an average of about $0.26/kWh during June and July but it went up to $0.39/kWh during August, where we had a $400 bill even with our 5 kW PV system. I actually got an energy credit for the first two months this year because my PV is putting electricity into the grid at peak ($0.52/kW) and off-peak ($0.28/kWh) rates when we're using less than the total output, but I'm only paying $0.09/kWh for all the power I'm using at night. Another advantage is our 8 kWh storage battery that discharges during the peak period to minimize our $0.52 usage, while also charging up at $0.09/kWh.

6/25/2018
255 kWh
$66.21
$0.26/kWh

6/24/19
71 kWh
-$32.07 (energy credit)


7/25/18
416 kWh
$113.07
$0.27/kWh

7/24/19
190 kWh
-$33.62 (energy credit)


8/23/18
1,022 kWh
$403.85
$0.39/kWh

8/24/19
559 kWh (estimate)
$79.58 (estimate)
$0.14/kWh

Wow, those rates are very high compared to my area.. I'm lucky and my city has probably one of the lowest electric rates in the country. Even in neighboring Tampa (TECO) and Pinellas County (Duke Energy), the rates are at least 30% higher than in my town. I love the place I live.. Low property taxes and low electric cost.. Extremely affordable cost of living and yet, I'm 40 minutes from Disney World and 55 minutes from the Gulf Beaches..

 

[FlbrkMike]

I'm pretty sure we have the highest rates in the continental US. The $0.52 peak rate goes from 4:00 pm until 9:00 pm but only during the summer (June through October) when the on-peak rate goes down to $0.24 (still pretty high). It actually works to my advantage for part of the year, as you can see from my June and July bills, because they're paying me that high rate when my PV system overproduces. In the early summer I'm still getting some good production from 4:00 pm until about 7:00 pm.

I'm thinking about adding some more panels and switching to a heat pump for HVAC and a heat pump water heater. We're on propane for those now, which is also very expensive. After some intense and complicated mathematical manipulations I figure I can run those appliances a lot cheaper on electricity as well, though I haven't yet priced them out to see what the payback would be.

The cost of living is pretty high here compared to most parts of the country, but we're also close to the beach, and the mountains, and I like the weather. We have Disneyland here, but I was done with that at least a decade ago.

 

[electriceddy]

So, I switched electric plans to save on EV charging a little over a month ago. Today, I got my first bill with the new plan.. My electric cost actually went DOWN from last year when I didn't have an EV..

08/20/2019 Utilities Bill $237.66
08/21/2018 Utilities Bill $251.53

I'm in Florida, so my electric consumption is the highest in the summer months..
So, effectively, charging the EV has not increased my electric bill. My consumption was 250 kwh higher than the previous year but due to the change in pricing, the bill went down.
Even when considering the cost of charging the EV at my nightly rate of 5.006 cents per kwh, I'm consuming less than $350 per year for electricity driving 30k miles per year.
Before the Kona, I was drving my F150 Crew Cab Pickup truck to work. I got about 18 mpg on it. 30000 miles/18 mpg = 1667 gallons of gas. Average price in the last 12 months was $2.50 per gallon in my area. 1667 X $2.50 = $4167.5 for gas per year.
Now, in the Kona, I use an average of 4.7 miles/kwh (in summer, will be less in winter here in Florida). 30000 miles / 4.7 miles/kwh = 6383 kwh use per year. At my electric rate of 0.05006, the total cost of charging for 30k miles is $319.53.. Let's add a little for charger losses etc... let's say $350 for 30k miles
$4167.50 - $350 = $3817.50 annual savings and that at the low gas cost in Florida.

Now, compared to a ICE Kona which gets probably about 30 mpg, the savings would be $2150 per year.. The ICE Kona SEL MSRP is $24k while the Kona Electric SEL is $36950. However, after tax credit, the Kona Electric is actually $7500 less, $29450.
So, the price difference effectively is only $5450.
At $2150 savings per year, it takes less than 3 years to recover the difference and from there on, you are winning. (and that's at the low cost of gas in Florida).

We pay double or more that rate here in B.C. But still when an interested person asks "how much to operate" I tell them about 1.25 cents / km summer and around 2 cents / km winter- which is peanuts compared to the GMC 2500 Vans I used to run.

 

[R P]

We pay double or more that rate here in B.C. But still when an interested person asks "how much to operate" I tell them about 1.25 cents / km summer and around 2 cents / km winter- which is peanuts compared to the GMC 2500 Vans I used to run.

Yup, we pay more for everything here, gasoline, electricity (despite all our hydro power), insurance, housing, taxes, food, you name it. Of course there is a very understandable reason for all that...

Sure glad we have a lot of free chargers here, though,... And I did get a $10K subsidy to buy the Kona.

Heading out to Manning Park tomorrow for another hike. Biggest cost will be feeding our hungry, growing grandsons... Forgot how much kids at that age can eat...

 

[electriceddy]

Yup, we pay more for everything here, gasoline, electricity (despite all our hydro power), insurance, housing, taxes, food, you name it. Of course there is a very understandable reason for all that...

Sure glad we have a lot of free chargers here, though,... And I did get a $10K subsidy to buy the Kona.

Heading out to Manning Park tomorrow for another hike. Biggest cost will be feeding our hungry, growing grandsons... Forgot how much kids at that age can eat...

Especially insurance- I just forked out $1843 CDN yesterday for 1 year insurance on Blueberry (clean drivers record, many years driving continuously insured)
Basic - $813
Third party liability - $233
Collision - $489
Comprehensive - $247
Annual license fee - $61.00

Wonder how a young inexperienced driver could afford it, never mind if you had any accidents or claims.

 

[apu]

We pay 8.5 cents Canadian or roughly 6.5 cents US per Kwh flat rate all the time here in Manitoba. Comprehensive/collision/ third party car insurance with $300 deductible is $1442 Canadian ($1100 US)for the year on a Kona. Unfortunately that is about where the cheap ends

 

[R P]

We pay 8.5 cents Canadian or roughly 6.5 cents US per Kwh flat rate all the time here in Manitoba. Comprehensive/collision/ third party car insurance with $300 deductible is $1442 Canadian ($1100 US)for the year on a Kona. Unfortunately that is about where the cheap ends

Well, let's see... You don't pay 1.50 or 1.70/litre for gas. Your housing costs are very reasonable, probably amongst the lowest in the country for a major city ( I lived 10 years in Winnipeg). Food is cheaper, probably booz, too. Parking is mostly free all over. Only thing that probably costs more is snow clearing...

 

[electriceddy]

Well, let's see... You don't pay 1.50 or 1.70/litre for gas. Your housing costs are very reasonable, probably amongst the lowest in the country for a major city ( I lived 10 years in Winnipeg). Food is cheaper, probably booz, too. Parking is mostly free all over. Only thing that probably costs more is snow clearing...

Surprisingly hockey ticket prices are also included in the cheaper in Manitoba file :
https://www.bardown.com/ranking-the...ian-nhl-teams-from-highest-to-lowest-1.669444
Sorry for drifting OT.

 

[electriceddy]

I'm pretty sure we have the highest rates in the continental US. The $0.52 peak rate goes from 4:00 pm until 9:00 pm but only during the summer (June through October) when the on-peak rate goes down to $0.24 (still pretty high). It actually works to my advantage for part of the year, as you can see from my June and July bills, because they're paying me that high rate when my PV system overproduces. In the early summer I'm still getting some good production from 4:00 pm until about 7:00 pm.

I'm thinking about adding some more panels and switching to a heat pump for HVAC and a heat pump water heater. We're on propane for those now, which is also very expensive. After some intense and complicated mathematical manipulations I figure I can run those appliances a lot cheaper on electricity as well, though I haven't yet priced them out to see what the payback would be.

The cost of living is pretty high here compared to most parts of the country, but we're also close to the beach, and the mountains, and I like the weather. We have Disneyland here, but I was done with that at least a decade ago.

BlueKonaEV has beaches, beautiful weather and Walt Disney World but can't really compete with the mountains:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugarloaf_Mountain_(Florida)

 

[R P]

BlueKonaEV has beaches, beautiful weather and Walt Disney World but can't really compete with the mountains:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugarloaf_Mountain_(Florida)

Well, Florida certainly has a lot going for it. Been there a few times,... beaches, Everglades, beaches, fishing, beaches, don't have to fly to Ft. Lauderdale to go on a cruise, beaches, alligator wrestling (used to love going to Gatorland), and more beaches... Just could do with a few less hurricanes.

 

[FlbrkMike]

BlueKonaEV has beaches, beautiful weather and Walt Disney World but can't really compete with the mountains:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugarloaf_Mountain_(Florida)

LOL. 312 feet (95 meters). My house is 400 feet above sea level and that's barely a hill. We do have pretty steep electric rates in San Diego, high taxes and ridiculous rent and home values, but I'll have to say I don't have to deal with snow clearing. Also, we've owned our home for almost 20 years so our mortgage is pretty reasonable compared to most around here.

 

[dborn]

My overall yearly electricity costs here in Quebec, Canada: 0.093$cdn/Kwh (0.058$ US)
The current gasoline costs: 1.30$cdn/litre (3.52$ US/gal)
Ok, my current car is a hybrid that gets 5.9l/100km (38 MPG US) yearly avg. but still, going for an electric car is kind of a no brainer around these parts... at least for me.

 

[KiwiME]

Ha, lightweights ... I paid $75k for the car and an average of 46 cents a unit because I can only use public chargers due to poor access to my city flat. Even at home the best night rate I could get is 20 cents. These are NZ dollars but considering my income here would numerically match that when I used to live in San Diego, they may as well be US dollars.

If that didn't suck enough, in 1-2 years the government is going to start billing EV owners with a road tax at $0.072 / km which will exactly double my costs and that total will then match the cost of driving a ICE. If they move forward I will probably sell the EV.

 

[electriceddy]

Ha, lightweights ... I paid $75k for the car and an average of 46 cents a unit because I can only use public chargers due to poor access to my city flat. Even at home the best night rate I could get is 20 cents. These are NZ dollars but considering my income here would numerically match that when I used to live in San Diego, they may as well be US dollars.

If that didn't suck enough, in 1-2 years the government is going to start billing EV owners with a road tax at $0.072 / km which will exactly double my costs and that total will then match the cost of driving a ICE. If they move forward I will probably sell the EV.

Whens the next election?

 

[FloridaSun]

Especially insurance- I just forked out $1843 CDN yesterday for 1 year insurance on Blueberry (clean drivers record, many years driving continuously insured)
Basic - $813
Third party liability - $233
Collision - $489
Comprehensive - $247
Annual license fee - $61.00

Wonder how a young inexperienced driver could afford it, never mind if you had any accidents or claims.

Wow.. I pay $250 for full coverage on the Kona with $1000 deductible for 6 months on our multi car plan. I have 3 cars on the plan and my 4th car (68 Vette Convertible) is on Classic car insurance for $275 per year.
Someone has to pay for all the free stuff in Canada and it's the taxpayers..

 

[electriceddy]

Wow.. I pay $250 for full coverage on the Kona with $1000 deductible for 6 months on our multi car plan. I have 3 cars on the plan and my 4th car (68 Vette Convertible) is on Classic car insurance for $275 per year.
Someone has to pay for all the free stuff in Canada and it's the taxpayers..

Sadly, your right

 

[FlbrkMike]

$506 US for 6 months coverage with $250 deductible through USAA. We have another car and an old F250 crew cab on the same policy.