Mega Thread for Tesla Investors

Regarding FBI investigation, there's this from Fox Business' Charles Gasparino on Twitter‏:
"not really that much of a story. we know the Feds are looking at this FBI does the leg work and these case are VERY difficult to make. shld point out as ive previously reported @SEC_Enforcement is looking at the same thing $TSLA"

and then

"From my law enforcement source: the feds would have to find proof ie an email, a document, something tangible hat showed that @Tesla officials or @elonmusk was lying re the production sked. not impossible but really difficult $TSLA"

Elon then replied to that with:
"Exactly, this is total bs. What part of “production hell” sounds like a sure thing!?"

"The FOIA on this will be solid gold. Can’t wait."

Now, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it doesn't sound like he's very concerned.
 
Domenick said:
Regarding FBI investigation, there's this from Fox Business' Charles Gasparino on Twitter‏:
"not really that much of a story. we know the Feds are looking at this FBI does the leg work and these case are VERY difficult to make. shld point out as ive previously reported @SEC_Enforcement is looking at the same thing $TSLA"

and then

"From my law enforcement source: the feds would have to find proof ie an email, a document, something tangible hat showed that @Tesla officials or @elonmusk was lying re the production sked. not impossible but really difficult $TSLA"

Elon then replied to that with:
"Exactly, this is total bs. What part of “production hell” sounds like a sure thing!?"

"The FOIA on this will be solid gold. Can’t wait."

Now, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it doesn't sound like he's very concerned.
Click to expand...
That Gasparino guy is a bit of a nut job himself. When he makes up his own scoop, it's all so valuable. Like the rumor he spread on DIP loans for Tesla that turned out to be nothing.

FBI is asking former employees. SEC had no reason to talk to former employees about the $420 tweet. So Gasparino may be wrong, may be right. I can't imagine that Gasparino has exatly the same sources as WSJ.

And never go by what Elon makes it "sound line" because he is deceptive ~100% of the time. He also said "zero concern for 20000 Model 3 in Dec 2017". So go figure.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Tesla and Elon keep saying multiple lies at different times. When you catch one, he points to the other thing he said. When he raises money or sells cars/fake solar tiles, he points to something else. Countless examples of this.
Just look at his promise to customers to return their cars for no reason. Let's see how the promise of $5000 refund works out for customers.

Yes, proving intent can be hard for both FBI and SEC. Even thought it is so obvious in this case. Promise 10k/week and raise money from investors. Then find excuses to never do what you promised.
May be FBI/DOJ can show a pattern of deception and lies (easy) and get somewhere on this case.
Of course, if the company falls apart, there will be lots of defections and finger pointing and truths will pour out much faster than now. Now the tightly knit group of Straubel, Ahuja, Guilien and Elon will keep their mouths shut as long as they can.
 
"TeslaInvestors" wants to reassure all short-sellers that keeping their short investment is fine.

26q71o.jpg
 
Domenick said:
Now, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it doesn't sound like he's very concerned.
Click to expand...

Nope. It's quite telling that "TeslaInvestors" has turned to focusing on some minor lawsuits and SEC/DOJ investigations into Tesla, in his increasingly desperate attempt to self-justify his continued "short" investment. Any rational person would have exited the position before Tesla released its Q3 results.

26q71o.jpg


I wonder how many low-level or rather unimportant active lawsuits and/or SEC/DOJ investigations there are against, let's say, Ford right now? Of course, the media isn't interested on reporting such things because Ford isn't "sexy" like Tesla is.
​
 
I find it funny and somewhat curious. Tesla world is on fire about the the Model 3P $5000 price drop. But not a blip on IEV about this story.
 
TeslaInvestors said:
I find it funny and somewhat curious. Tesla world is on fire about the the Model 3P $5000 price drop. But not a blip on IEV about this story.
Click to expand...

Fred over at Electrek having a meltdown due to people getting "his" car cheaper than he did, does not equate to the "Tesla world being on fire". In the past I've wondered about the negative comments that IEVs staff have made about Fred Lambert, but in this case at least, Fred is writing in a very unprofessional and decidedly non-objective manner.

This is no different than those who rush out to buy the newest iPhone as soon as its available expressing outrage when the price is dropped by $100 just a few weeks later.

And, "TeslaInvestors", the dog in the picture below isn't Tesla fans. It's Tesla short-sellers like you.

26q71o.jpg
 
Source: http://ir.tesla.com/node/19231/html

As we have transformed from a 100,000 per year unit carmaker into a ~340,000 unit per year carmaker, our earnings profile has flipped dramatically. Sufficient Model 3 profitability was critical to make our business sustainable – something many argued would be impossible to achieve. Due to the ingenuity and incredible hard work of our team combined with an innovative vehicle design and manufacturing strategy, we have achieved total auto gross margin of ~25%.

Elon Musk and Deepak Ahuja​

Bob Wilson
 
I was scanning for Tesla reports and came across:
Tesla Posts Profitable Quarter, but Questions Remain | Breitbarthttps://www.breitbart.com/tech/.../tesla-posts-profitable-quarter-but-questions-remain/

Elon Musk’s electric-car manufacturing company Tesla has posted a profitable third quarter, but questions still remain surrounding the company’s future.

Tesla’s shares rose today following the posting of a net income of $311.5 million, a huge improvement on last year’s Q3 postings of a loss of $619.4 million. . . .

Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas issued a buy rating for Tesla stock, explaining his position he stated: ... "The quality of cash flow was stronger than expected ..."

David Tamberrino of Goldman Sachs issued a sell rating ... "we question if this is not as good as it gets from a near-term upside surprise for shares. The company has maintained that it designed and built the Model 3 with a target 25% gross margin and almost achieved that this quarter (albeit with a rich mix). However, with its own exposure to China tariffs on imported components and likely headwinds to mix as lower price point vehicles are offered, automotive gross margins likely compress sequentially into 4Q18 – and could see further mix pressure into 2019 as the US Federal Tax Credit begins to phase out for its vehicles … We raise our estimates, and our 12-month price target to $225 (from $200).​

So I'm OK up to this point. Then they dive into the Q3 delivery problems:

An article from the LA Times outlines claims that Tesla has been taking payment for cars and delaying shipments for significant amounts of time
​
First off, the link is to another Breitbart article, not directly to the LA Times but a Breitbart edit that omits what they wish. Regardless, the Tesla delivery problems have already been discussed.

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
So I'm OK up to this point. Then they dive into the Q3 delivery problems:

An article from the LA Times outlines claims that Tesla has been taking payment for cars and delaying shipments for significant amounts of time
​
First off, the link is to another Breitbart article, not directly to the LA Times but a Breitbart edit that omits what they wish. Regardless, the Tesla delivery problems have already been discussed.
Click to expand...

I don't get it. I traced this back to the actual LA Times article, and it claims that somebody from L.A. paid for his Tesla car by "cash" (I presume that actually means by electronic funds transfer) but didn't get his car until months later, due to some delays apparently involving his build being sidelined and having to have a new production unit started for him.

What I don't get is why, or even how, he could have paid for the car before delivery. It's SOP* for Tesla not to collect payment until time of delivery. Now, there is a situation where Texas (and perhaps a few other States) require payment at the time an order is placed, but this certainly isn't true for California. I suppose it's possible that this guy, altho he was "from L.A." according to the article, for some reason was taking delivery in Texas or some other State with that restriction. But otherwise, I can't imagine how this could have happened.

There seem to be some details missing from the article here. In fact, the article states:

The company notes that most of its customers don’t have to pay full price until their car is ready for pickup.
​
But the article doesn't explain why this case was different.

*Standard Operating Procedure
​
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
I don't get it. I traced this back to the actual LA Times article, and it claims that somebody from L.A. paid for his Tesla car by "cash"
Click to expand...
The article date was Sunday, Oct 21, three days before the Q3 quarterly earnings report. The Q3 report demolished the article. But he did write after the report:
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-5-things-20181025-story.html

The problem is Russ Mitchell tries to convert projections into a lock-solid contract. I know the difference but some do not. The best way to make God laugh, "I have a plan."

Bob Wilson
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
I don't get it. I traced this back to the actual LA Times article, and it claims that somebody from L.A. paid for his Tesla car by "cash" (I presume that actually means by electronic funds transfer) but didn't get his car until months later, due to some delays apparently involving his build being sidelined and having to have a new production unit started for him.

What I don't get is why, or even how, he could have paid for the car before delivery. It's SOP* for Tesla not to collect payment until time of delivery. Now, there is a situation where Texas (and perhaps a few other States) require payment at the time an order is placed, but this certainly isn't true for California. I suppose it's possible that this guy, altho he was "from L.A." according to the article, for some reason was taking delivery in Texas or some other State with that restriction. But otherwise, I can't imagine how this could have happened.

There seem to be some details missing from the article here. In fact, the article states:

The company notes that most of its customers don’t have to pay full price until their car is ready for pickup.
​
But the article doesn't explain why this case was different.

*Standard Operating Procedure
​
Click to expand...
Standard procedure on paper, sure. But no company is going to publicize how they might be grabbing customers' wallets and running away using the SOP shield.

For this particular guy, took me a minute to type "Raghunath bansal twitter" and here he is.

https://twitter.com/RaghunathBansa2/with_replies
RB.webp

Here is the unwritten AOP (alternate operating procedure):
Tell customer his car is ready for pickup tomorrow. Ask to wire the money first for easy transaction. Then the car arrives defective or doesn't arrive. Voila! You have customer's wallet, so keep it till next quarter. :) When 84% of your cars are defective when they come out of production tentline, this can be fairyl common.
 
Last edited:
TeslaInvestors said:
Tell customer his car is ready for pickup tomorrow. Ask to wire the money first for easy transaction.
Click to expand...

Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!

That's not how Tesla does business, Mr. Pravduh. Payment at time of delivery means just that. Not the day before, not an hour before, but at the time that the keys... er, the keycard... is handed over. Tesla customers always have the right to refuse delivery... which means the car will not be paid for! (...again, unless you live in Texas, or some other State where they insist you pay at the time an order is placed.)

P.S. -- Why are you wasting time and filling up our screens with tweets which have nothing to do with the question, which is why this particular buyer (claims to have) paid for his car when it was ordered, rather than when it was delivered? Well of course, we know why... and the answer doesn't reflect well upon you or your reputation here.
​
 
bwilson4web said:
However, "Muck Rack" itself seems a curious organization.
Click to expand...

Forbes says:

Muck Rack is a free platform that lets everyone see what journalists are tweeting. It promises to “watch the news come together in real time” by tracking journalists via Twitter and other social media. One day it could be the Mitt Romney bullying story at the top of the list. The next day it’s the support of gay marriage by President Obama or the death of Disco Queen Donna Summer. The free “Muck Rack Daily” is chock full of goodies from the popularity lists to chats on subjects like “Is Twitter the best platform for journalists to communicate with sources?” and the Most Active List of reporters.
​
Seems like a rather narrowly focused special interest service. Also, seems odd that the name appears to be a reference to muckraking, but the description of the service doesn't indicate it's even remotely focused on that. Seems to be more of a "What's trending now?" sort of thing.

I've been thinking for years that what we need is a really dedicated, bulldog-persistant team of muckrakers working to expose the absolutely astounding level of corruption in Washington and in the various State governments. But this pretty obviously ain't that.
​
 
bwilson4web said:
CNBC is slowly getting a clue:


Bob Wilson
Click to expand...

Well, I'd say their guest is. The CNBC commentator talks about the next cheaper car, not mentioning the Model Y, which should be at least as popular as the 3 if the teams executes intelligently (no falcon-wing doors, please).
The Model X now outsells the Model S.
 
Good news for @TeslaInvestors : Elon Musk Assumes New Role Of "Nothing Of Tesla"

The man formerly known as the CEO of Tesla is no more.
Elon Musk, previously listed as the CEO of Tesla, has just announced via Twitter that he’s deleted that title and all other associated Tesla titles. He should now be referred to as the “Nothing of Tesla.”

***UPDATE: Musk now says that he’ll be legally required to assume role of President. Here’s the Tweet:​

Source: https://tricycle.org/magazine/what-do-buddhists-mean-when-they-talk-about-emptiness/

Experience. It adds nothing to, and takes nothing away from, the raw data of physical and mental events. You look at events in the mind and the senses with no thought of whether there’s anything lying behind them.

This mode is called emptiness because it is empty of the presuppositions we usually add to experience in order to make sense of it: the stories and worldviews we fashion to explain who we are and the world we live in. Although these stories and views have their uses, the Buddha found that the questions they raise—of our true identity and the reality of the world outside—pull attention away from a direct experience of how events influence one another in the immediate present. Thus they get in the way when we try to understand and solve the problem of suffering.​

Bob Wilson
 
Last edited:
From Institutional Investor: "Tesla Shorts Losing Billions — Again"

On a day that the Dow briefly slipped into correction territory, Tesla shares continued a recent surge that is pummeling short sellers.

As a result, Tesla’s short sellers — some of whom just a few weeks ago were on the verge of breaking even — are now deep in the red again.​

26q71o.jpg


From Forbes: "Guess What? Everyone Was Wrong About Tesla"

This quarter’s spectacular results have confounded the analysts’ forecasts, proving what some of us have been saying for a while now, that few in the motor industry and its so-called experts few understand the strategic vision of a company prepared to take risks to change the world. Virtually everyone was wrong about Tesla’s finances and its future, and many analysts are now scratching their heads trying to understand what happened while still making recommendations of questionable credibility.​

This guy is saying some of the very same things that I've said many times, in some cases using the exact same phrases!

Is he copying my posts?
:p :D :cool:
 
@bwilson4web Here is one more lawsuit against vaporware autopilot/fsd. They keep coming.. Over promise, under delivery.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/florida-man-sues-tesla-over-164118457.html

Florida man sues Tesla over autopilot feature, crash
A Florida man says the autopilot feature of his Tesla vehicle failed to detect a disabled car on a highway, leading to a collision that left him with permanent injuries, according to a negligence lawsuit filed Tuesday.

Shawn Hudson said in the lawsuit filed in state court in Orlando, Florida, that Tesla made false statements about the autopilot safety on his Tesla Model S. It's the second such lawsuit in as many months. A Utah driver filed a similar complaint last month.
Click to expand...
A Tesla spokeswoman said in an email there's no reason to believe the autopilot feature malfunctioned and that drivers should always maintain control of the vehicle when using the autopilot function.
Click to expand...
Really? Then why the hell will I pay for this dumbpilot feature if 100% of the time I will be in control of the vehicle? What idiocy. I think, it may require 200% attention, to undo any damage that dumb AP might do, like swerve towards the oncoming traffic.

"What they say to federal regulators is very different from what you hear on the Tesla lot," Morgan said. "It's very different from what Mr. Hudson was told when he was buying his car."
Click to expand...
Of course they do. Otherwise who will be dumb enough to pay a penny for this dumbpilot?
 
Last edited:
IBID:
"Tesla has always been clear that Autopilot doesn't make the car impervious to all accidents, and Tesla goes to great lengths to provide clear instructions about what Autopilot is and is not," the spokeswoman said.​

So I'm fairly sanguine about this and any other lawsuit. If you think autopilot is terrible, don't buy it. But I have a different opinion because of driving experience.

Both of my cars have dynamic cruise control, automatic emergency braking, and the Prime as lane keep alert. I would not have a car without the first two and the alert has nagged me to use the turn signals when changing lanes. They are driver aids and until I replace them with a Tesla, good enough.

In the meanwhile: https://www.tesla.com/blog/q3-2018-vehicle-safety-report

Here’s a look at the data we’re able to report for Q3:
  • Over the past quarter, we’ve registered one accident or crash-like event for every 3.34 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged.
  • For those driving without Autopilot, we registered one accident or crash-like event for every 1.92 million miles driven. By comparison, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s (NHTSA) most recent data shows that in the United States, there is an automobile crash every 492,000 miles. While NHTSA’s data includes accidents that have occurred, our records include accidents as well as near misses (what we are calling crash-like events).
A TSLA stock holder, I am confident the Tesla 'President' has autopilot engineers and coders improving the product. By the time I buy my Tesla, it will be better than today which is better than the earlier versions.

Bob Wilson
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top