Which leads me to believe it may be the same motor/inverter set-up as before -with less torque.
It might be a redesigned motor/gru, but not including the inverter that is required for 800V charging.
Possible due to the battery cell type.
New Generation Kona EV
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It might be a redesigned motor/gru, but not including the inverter that is required for 800V charging.
Possible due to the battery cell type.
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
1) Since the torque number matches the '23 Niro EV exactly and for cost reasons it would be hard to believe that it's not the same drivetrain, which is entirely new. The horsepower rating is simply a matter of whatever number was programmed. 150 or 160 kW, it's all the same, an intermittent rating based primarily on thermal limitations so higher power is swapped evenly for less time. I think Kia kept it the same 150 to avoid competing with the old model Niro EV Plus which puzzlingly is still sold. Hyundai might have increased it by 10 to rate higher than the competition, to make up for the small loss of acceleration due to the much lower torque, or simply to throw us a bone.(1) is the motor/ GRU new model-wet similar to E-GMP
(2) color (and maintenance interval of battery coolant)
This one is definitely on my list.
2) I forgot to check coolant colour when I had a nosey under the hood of a '23 Niro but I'm nearly certain it's a conventional pink coolant. Why? Because Kia moved the battery cooling panel to the outside of the battery pack, see this video, to no-doubt significantly reduce the risk of the cells getting bathed in coolant if it leaks out, the only reason for the ridiculously-expensive and short-lived low-conductivity stuff. I'd expect Hyundai to advance their technology in parallel with Kia. However, it remains to be seen if placing that relatively delicate component in such a vulnerable location is a good idea or not.
3) I am keen because of the V2L as well. Backup power during rainfall is essential for me to power pumps. A gasoline generator works but I have to be present to set it up.
I can only imagine to avoid competing too closely with the Ioniq 5 or new E-GMP models.
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That will make things easier on the problematic drive gears. I'll be interested to see how it affects acceleration.
R P
Well-Known Member
I am very disappointed to hear this. With fast charging, the 2024 Kona could have been our trip car. Guess I will just have to keep waiting for either the I5 or I6.
New video:
Note @ 2:46 the PINK coolant.
Also @ 6:41 the power liftgate (hopefully available for N.A.), also following the increased space for spare tire (maybe enough room for a full 19" spare)
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KiwiME
Well-Known Member
I can't say I'm a fan of the rear corner styling. It looks like the Ioniq 6 design team broke into the Kona offices after hours and finished it for them. A smaller exact copy of the Ioniq 5 would have been my preference.
The 19" wheels don't seem ideal for less-than-perfect roads, especially when the spare is missing. Product designers in urban Seoul may not think a spare is useful but in rural NZ not having one can lead to an owner having a very bad day.
I hope they fixed the lack of rear-seat foot space under the front seats, their biggest design mistake. I also wish they had significantly redesigned the charge port door and upgraded the receptacle covers to something less cheap. But I did read somewhere that it's heated.
I don't know how this will fit into our local (NZ) market price-wise, which quite different from N. America. There have been a lot of new EVs show up in the same $75-90k price category the Kona initially dominated 5 years ago and remains in, including the Ioniq-5 58kWh 2WD, EV6 Air, Niro EV Light and Water, Lexus UX300e, Mercedes EQA, Ford Mach-E, Polestar 2, Peugeot E208/E2008, Opel Corsa-E and Mokka-E, Mazda MX-30 not to mention the M3 and MY. It's a very competitive segment.
Also we have several new cheaper EVs like the Leaf E+, Fiat 500E, MG ZS EV, BYD Atto 3, GWM Ora and soon the SsangYong Korando e-Motion. The Atto 3 won car of the year by the motoring writers guild, has V2L and lithium-iron cells.
The 19" wheels don't seem ideal for less-than-perfect roads, especially when the spare is missing. Product designers in urban Seoul may not think a spare is useful but in rural NZ not having one can lead to an owner having a very bad day.
I hope they fixed the lack of rear-seat foot space under the front seats, their biggest design mistake. I also wish they had significantly redesigned the charge port door and upgraded the receptacle covers to something less cheap. But I did read somewhere that it's heated.
I don't know how this will fit into our local (NZ) market price-wise, which quite different from N. America. There have been a lot of new EVs show up in the same $75-90k price category the Kona initially dominated 5 years ago and remains in, including the Ioniq-5 58kWh 2WD, EV6 Air, Niro EV Light and Water, Lexus UX300e, Mercedes EQA, Ford Mach-E, Polestar 2, Peugeot E208/E2008, Opel Corsa-E and Mokka-E, Mazda MX-30 not to mention the M3 and MY. It's a very competitive segment.
Also we have several new cheaper EVs like the Leaf E+, Fiat 500E, MG ZS EV, BYD Atto 3, GWM Ora and soon the SsangYong Korando e-Motion. The Atto 3 won car of the year by the motoring writers guild, has V2L and lithium-iron cells.
Some cosmetic elements of the design have capacity to be improved, I agree.
It appears NZ has a lot more access to EVs than Canada, as here anything other than Tesla and one is looking at as long waiting period, some well over a year.
If Hyundai can supply this EV to Canada (according to the proposed schedule) Late summer/Fall 2023 for pre-order and hopefully ~ 8 months delivery, say February 2024, I think it will do well.
Of course, the price will be a huge factor with other manufactures (GM, Ford etc) producing in better quantities in that same time frame so it remains to be seen.
I do like the fact that Hyundai will continue to supply Kona EV as it is a pretty good bargain compared to the competition with all its added functionality, even considering the slower than average DC charging speed. (They have to keep the $ lower than 800V E-GMP vehicles)
It does give an opportunity for perspective EV buyers to purchase with limited funds, which is an important factor to achieve climate goals and diversion from fossil fuels which of course is the main objective.
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KiwiME
Well-Known Member
The gear reducer ratio for the 2023+ Kia Niro EV has been released and so I was able to draw up this basic motor torque and power v.s. road speed curve.
The lower gearing provides the motor with 30% more 'leverage' against the wheels with a torque value 35% less than the original, close enough numbers to avoid losing too much acceleration. So they can use a smaller (cheaper) motor, but that needs to rev higher.
"Zero to 100" (or 60) performance is approximated graphically by the area under the power curves (the lower two) up to 100 km/h (or 60 mph).
Since the new Kona is said to have 160 kW the red line would sit slightly higher and when you add up the area under each of the curves it may compensate for that wedge lost up to 67 km/h. Well, let's just assume the new Kona will have the same gear ratio, noting also that the original Kona did have a slightly different ratio than the Niro. As you can see the two areas up to 100 km/h match better with that bump to 160 kW.
I'll just note that the top speed is about 160 km/h so don't read anything into the 200 km/h axis maximum.
The lower gearing provides the motor with 30% more 'leverage' against the wheels with a torque value 35% less than the original, close enough numbers to avoid losing too much acceleration. So they can use a smaller (cheaper) motor, but that needs to rev higher.
"Zero to 100" (or 60) performance is approximated graphically by the area under the power curves (the lower two) up to 100 km/h (or 60 mph).
Since the new Kona is said to have 160 kW the red line would sit slightly higher and when you add up the area under each of the curves it may compensate for that wedge lost up to 67 km/h. Well, let's just assume the new Kona will have the same gear ratio, noting also that the original Kona did have a slightly different ratio than the Niro. As you can see the two areas up to 100 km/h match better with that bump to 160 kW.
I'll just note that the top speed is about 160 km/h so don't read anything into the 200 km/h axis maximum.
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ScubaSteve
Active Member
Latest specs out:
2024 Hyundai Kona Electric Powertrain Specs Are Out (insideevs.com)
A reduction in the torque from 395Nm to 255 Nm. Old motor 150 kW vs new 160 kW Not sure if it is a redesigned motor or software/firmware related.
Comes with battery preconditioning, and heated charging door
V2L capable 1.63 kVa (N.A) 3.13 kVa (Europe)
Also c/w surround view monitor, Bose premium sound system, ADAS, remote smart parking assist (RSPA) and OTA updates.
More details here, including what is and not included comparing N.A. and European markets. IE HUD,frunk and V2L outlets-assuming inside cabin ones (only available in Europe)
Only questions I can think of now are
(1) is the motor/ GRU new model-wet similar to E-GMP
(2) color (and maintenance interval of battery coolant)
This one is definitely on my list.
Hi electriceddy,
Hyundai did a good redesign of the Kona EV. Quite a few valuable improvements.
The new KONA/Niro model is again based on an universal platform for BEV, PHEV and ICE drives. This has important consequences. For example, Sandy Munro people in a film in which they looked under the floor of new Niro showed a huge empty space between the floor and the battery package, open from behind above the cradle of the rear suspension. As the lecturer put it: "A large family of raccoons would fit there." Or an ICE fuel tank. In addition, the rear attachment of the battery package consists of two huge, awkward brackets made of thick sheet metal. Well, it doesn't look very elegant. But the designers had a choice: design a larger battery package that would fill this space, but add another 100kg to 400kg of the current mass of the battery, additionally deterioration of the distribution of masses, increasing the cost and deterioration of performance (out of reach of course), or leave a shapely flat battery package. And above its back, a comfortable henhouse for any pests which would to settle there (or a contraband storage). They chose the latter solution. But the technical esthete is better not to look under the car.
I decided to post some highlight screenshots showing the improvements for those who didn't catch the updated Niro videos (1) and (2) provided by Munro Live.
The 2 vehicles should be the same (at least as far as drivetrain and other pictures following, so we may never see this done with new Kona EV.
New motor and gearbox design("wet" design - better integration) :
A/C compressor relocated higher (shorter leads and lines)
Another motor/gearbox shot (this time showing a "kinked" EPDM hose (left central)- needs improvement
HV Battery pack - front, also shows cooling pan separate from pack to enable regular coolant
Close ups of above (may need improvement for mechanical protection from road debris)
The HV leads entering the pack from above(protected), not straight in as before:
Communication and LV lines enter as before:
Back of pack showing label c/w weight and kWh (64.8 usable)
New flattened design (not a 2nd tier as before), obviously not the old E63 cells ...( more on that later)
Old:
Which allows an unused cubby hole above the pack, under the rear seats (needs improvement)
The large rear support brackets which are now required with the flattened pack:
And now my favorites, V2L adaptor, power boot and frunk (needs improvement) also notice the standard "pink" cheap coolant:
The additional 2.5 inches in body length will also come in handy for more rear storge and legroom
The 2 vehicles should be the same (at least as far as drivetrain and other pictures following, so we may never see this done with new Kona EV.
New motor and gearbox design("wet" design - better integration) :
A/C compressor relocated higher (shorter leads and lines)
Another motor/gearbox shot (this time showing a "kinked" EPDM hose (left central)- needs improvement
HV Battery pack - front, also shows cooling pan separate from pack to enable regular coolant
Close ups of above (may need improvement for mechanical protection from road debris)
The HV leads entering the pack from above(protected), not straight in as before:
Communication and LV lines enter as before:
Back of pack showing label c/w weight and kWh (64.8 usable)
New flattened design (not a 2nd tier as before), obviously not the old E63 cells ...( more on that later)
Old:
Which allows an unused cubby hole above the pack, under the rear seats (needs improvement)
The large rear support brackets which are now required with the flattened pack:
And now my favorites, V2L adaptor, power boot and frunk (needs improvement) also notice the standard "pink" cheap coolant:
The additional 2.5 inches in body length will also come in handy for more rear storge and legroom
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Did you notice the labeled cell configuration, 96 series 1 parallel? The advantage of that is that it's far easier to detect a failing cell because it won't be propped up by the two good cells when in a parallel set of three as we now have.
Also from a recent Munro video it appears that the Audi Etron Q4 EV that they reviewed underside may also have an external battery pack cooler.
Also from a recent Munro video it appears that the Audi Etron Q4 EV that they reviewed underside may also have an external battery pack cooler.
Good point.
Probably E78 series (with an increase of ~31 Wh/kg)
BTW correction on my above post ... increased body length ~6"
Some things can be liked, e.g. greater attention to "hiding" sensitive high-voltage connectors from stone impacts or aluminum wishbones (it's a pity that only the front ones). Others, however, raise doubts, e.g. reduced torque, resulting in worse acceleration with higher vehicle weight (perhaps it would be better to improve the transmission design). Good dynamics was a strong point of this model, it's a pity that it was not maintained. There's a larger trunk and a more contemporary interior design, but Munro pointed out a couple of shortcomings that spoil the effect a bit. Like the maximum DC charging power -- it's a big disappointment, at least 150kW would be nice. However, the fear of internal competition prevailed, especially since Ioniq 6 is supposed to be slightly cheaper than Ioniq 5 (which surprises me immensely). Despite everything, both the new Niro and Kona will be attractive items in the Korean company's menu.
Another video showing more details:
0:58 -360 camera, 1:50 - spare wheel compartment,4:00 - cluster and 4:56 steering wheel and controls.
I like the colors (interior and exterior), also like the bottom trim (side view) covering battery pack (a sore sight on the gen 1 models)
0:58 -360 camera, 1:50 - spare wheel compartment,4:00 - cluster and 4:56 steering wheel and controls.
I like the colors (interior and exterior), also like the bottom trim (side view) covering battery pack (a sore sight on the gen 1 models)
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Anyone who's interested in the 2024 Kona EV might find it useful to browse the 27MB owner's manual for the 2023 Kia EV as the Kona going to be very similar, if not identical in features and operation. While poking around I found that they have revised the brake cleaning function provided on the Ioniq 5 which was triggered by placing the car in Level 0 regen, but by several owner's accounts seemed to never turn itself off. This method appears way better as you switch it on manually and can switch it off when done, good as it's unlikely to take as many as 10 applications.
What a great idea! I wish my Honda Clarity PHEV had a brake-cleaning function. Hearing the swish-swish-swish sound from the rusty areas on the brake discs makes for a less-than-ideal EV experience. I know, I know, just turn up the radio.