Price gouging? Here's who should know...

One would hope that my fellow Americans will someday learn that the alleged "free market" is largely a scam. But we do cling mightily to our illusions.
 
Bruce M. said:
Exactly. Getting the $7,500 credit on a lease for a qualifying vehicle is routine, and if the dealer isn't giving it to you, you're being gouged.
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Well, if there's an additional dealer markup, any "routine credit" is sort of moot. "We're adding $27,500 to the MSRP, but, of course, we'll give you the routine $7,500 federal EV tax credit."

I'm just saying the US dealers set whatever price they choose. Any gouging on the $7,500 EV tax credit is just a component of the overall ADM gouging. It's only as "routine" as the leasors choose.

An EV pass-through tax credit is a better deal for leasees than we EV buyers get because leasees don't have to wait until filing taxes to get the benefit and leasees don't have to owe at least $7,500 in taxes to claim the $7,500 credit. In fact they don't have to owe any taxes at all! The only advantage for EV buyers is they deal directly with the government for the tax credit--there's no haggling about how much of the guaranteed tax credit they can claim.
 
OK then,it is even worse than a "free market" where you are free to starve, it is a rigged market in favour of the rich and you suckers keep voting for it.
 
JONATHAN BARTON said:
OK then...it is a rigged market in favour of the rich and you suckers keep voting for it.
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It should be abundantly clear to anyone with a shred of curiosity that Americans are presented with a semblance of choice at the polls.

I think *you* would be well served to consider Wheaton's Law.
 
Clearly you would know more about it than I as it came so readily to mind. "A semblance of choice"???? To anyone except the less than 6% of the worlds population who are Americans, your choices look like two cheeks of the same arse with barely a crack between them. Calling people fascist, commie , socialist does not make them so merely indicating the ignorance of those using the terms.
 
In economics class I was taught that profit doesn’t exist in the long term, that the utility a company makes on a product is what is required to keep them selling that product. I don’t mind if a company is overcharging if I am willing to pay the price or if I can walk away from deal. What I do object to is the bait and switch where they draw you in with a low price and then jack up the price when you go to make the deal.

I know the prices will go down once inventory increases. I also know that a good product will draw competition to the market. The EV6 is a tempting product but it really doesn’t meet my needs and I’m glad the current price gouging has tempered my temptation.


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Clifford C said:
Marty ..... no way am I willing to give Dan O'Brien KIA an extra $10,000 over MSRP ..... they are just the "delivery boy". I reserved the car from KIA and my deal was with KIA. How KIA corporate can allow this is mind boggling ............... I have sent the below to KIA Complaints and news organizations .......... I wish there was more I could do ..........

KIA is airing a super bowl ad featuring "robo-dog" and the new KIA flagship EV..... the model EV6. KIA's highly anticipated USA rollout of the new model EV6 is about to be severely tainted by the greed of some of its KIA dealerships.
In June of 2021, with a deposit payment of $100.00, I reserved a KIA EV6 at KIA's estimated retail full price (MSRP) of $58,500. At the time I reserved MY new EV6 from KIA, I chose the Dan O'Brien Kia of North Hampton NH dealership as my "Delivery Dealer." O'Brien's role was to receive MY CAR from KIA, prep MY CAR for delivery and arrange for payment/financing. Delivery was slated for early 2022 with the "scuttlebutt" being that cars would start being delivered to the 1500 reservation holders just in time for the super bowl and it's KIA "robo-dog" super bowl advertisement.
Only 1500 reservations were taken for the new EV6 in the USA and those of us "lucky" enough to get a reservation were ecstatic. I was psyched!
I received a call from my "delivery dealer" on Feb 9th 2022. MY new EV6 is ready for pick-up! Final KIA sticker price is $59,945 slightly higher than the $58,500 estimate provided by KIA in June .... no big deal.
Before I continue, I want to emphasize that my reservation is with the manufacturer KIA.... not with the dealer whose only contribution is to hand me the car and take my payment... the dealer was not involved in the ordering of the car, or the reservation process. In essence, the dealer is the "delivery boy."
In preparation for payment, the delivery dealer, O'Brien, sent me an invoice with a base "price" of $69,945, $10,000 higher than the KIA retail sticker price shown on window of the car.
Let me state this one more time .... KIA's retail price (MSRP) $59,945. O'Brien's price to me, to hand me MY CAR is $69,945.
Yes ... $10,000.00 higher than the KIA retail price. O'Brien's explanation is "too bad... it's what we can get for the car".
But ... it's not O'Brien's car, it's MY car. I reserved and ordered the car directly through KIA ... O'Brien is the "delivery boy."
In essence, my "delivery boy" is ransoming MY CAR BACK TO ME AT A COST OF $10,000.00.
The KIA forums show this disgusting practice is happening regularly around the country as unscrupulous dealers institute wildly unreasonable markups. In my case the $10,000 surcharge is being imposed by a dealer that did not even order the car. If it was not for my selection of the O'Brien dealership to take delivery of MY EV6, O'Brien would never have even seen the car.
KIA corporate needs to stop this price gouging immediately.
Instead of having 1500 wildly enthusiastic new owners bragging about their brand new EV6, KIA is about to have a large group of seriously upset people who believe they have been cheated out of their new EV6. How can this be good for anyone .... even for the dealers with the $10,000 unwarranted markup, it is short sighted beyond belief.
The super bowl ad won't be positively received by me or my fellow consumers who in good faith reserved an EV6 with KIA only to have it stolen by greedy dealers. Is this ridiculous price gouging what has become of us? In fact, watching the super bowl ad just spurs me on even more to making the dealership price gouging more visible to the public, and I intend to do just that.
I hope you run/air this story as it is not only KIA dealers, but also other manufacturers dealers (i.e. Ford that are instituting what they like to call "market adjustments" to their retail pricing.
As Forbes.com states "Many dealerships are charging “market adjustment,” a euphemism for an amount above sticker price, also known as price gouging.
See the "robo-dog" KIA super bowl ad at ... it's a great advertisement.
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More car shoppers should get up and walk away from bad deals. The only way dealers will stop trying to rip us all off is if we don't let them get away with it.
 
Bruce M. said:
More car shoppers should get up and walk away from bad deals. The only way dealers will stop trying to rip us all off is if we don't let them get away with it.
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The greedy dealers adjust their prices to what the market will bear. It's capitalism. If you wanted a vehicle that wasn't in short supply, the price would likely be discounted from MSRP.

What do dealers think after selling a car for MSRP and then watching the customer immediately flip it for big bucks? This story describes how a customer is offering his rare $110,000 Hummer EV Edition 1 with delivery mileage for $310,000. I hope there's a follow-up story that tells how much he actually gets, but I doubt we'll ever know. However, with stories like this it's easy to see why dealers want to get a piece of those extra profits.
 
What would happen if.... Collectively a group of people online decided to place online orders for a car and ALL rejected receipt of the car unless the dealer released the car at MSRP?
 
JamesS said:
What would happen if.... Collectively a group of people online decided to place online orders for a car and ALL rejected receipt of the car unless the dealer released the car at MSRP?
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Then other people, not smart enough to join this collective, would buy the car.
 
Texas Niro EV said:
In economics class I was taught that profit doesn’t exist in the long term, that the utility a company makes on a product is what is required to keep them selling that product. I don’t mind if a company is overcharging if I am willing to pay the price or if I can walk away from deal. What I do object to is the bait and switch where they draw you in with a low price and then jack up the price when you go to make the deal.

I know the prices will go down once inventory increases. I also know that a good product will draw competition to the market. The EV6 is a tempting product but it really doesn’t meet my needs and I’m glad the current price gouging has tempered my temptation.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
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That really was a weird economics class you attended. Was it run by Bernie Madoff?
 
JONATHAN BARTON said:
That really was a weird economics class you attended. Was it run by Bernie Madoff?
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This is just basic economics taught in every college in the country. If you think the concepts I presented are weird then you don't get the point and you have probably never taken a college economics class.
 
Texas Niro EV said:
This is just basic economics taught in every college in the country. If you think the concepts I presented are weird then you don't get the point and you have probably never taken a college economics class.
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Which would explain the fact that the USA's debts are $28.4 trillion and if Japan and China ever call in their share it will be Bankrupt USA. I had the fortune not to go to an American college, roughly equal to one of our schools for the backward,
but a British University What you were told but clearly failed to grasp was that was in the classical perfect competitive market where the balance between consumer and supplier was equal. Like the Unicorn it has never been seen
 
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Jim Matthews said:
My local Wagner KIA has 17 unsold 2022 Niro EV, all with $3000 ADM as their "Special pricing". These vehicles have been on the lot more than 180 days - there's no demand.


The approach appears to be raising EV prices high enough to make ICE cars more appealing.

https://www.wagnerkiaofshrewsbury.com/new-inventory/index.htm
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Just to point out, there are only 9 EV6's in inventory now, so there's definitely demand for the car, even with the dealer markup.

BTW, my local Kia dealership (where I got my Niro EV below MSRP 2.5 years ago) is now adding a markup of $5000 to Niro EVs, $10,000 for EV6, and $15,000 to the Telluride (which kind of disproves your idea that their goal is to increase ICE sales)
 
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ITown said:
Just to point out, there are only 9 EV6's in inventory now, so there's definitely demand for the car, even with the dealer markup.

BTW, my local Kia dealership (where I got my Niro EV below MSRP 2.5 years ago) is now adding a markup of $5000 to Niro EVs, $10,000 for EV6, and $15,000 to the Telluride (which kind of disproves your idea that their goal is to increase ICE sales)
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I
Don't know how you attribute the above to me as I never wrote it. As I am in the UK it is a little unlikely that I bought a E Niro in the USA
 
ITown said:
BTW, my local Kia dealership (where I got my Niro EV below MSRP 2.5 years ago) is now adding a markup of $5000 to Niro EVs, $10,000 for EV6, and $15,000 to the Telluride (which kind of disproves your idea that their goal is to increase ICE sales)
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ADM to the Telluride preceeded the introduction of KIA's EV line, and happens in dealerships that *don't* sell the Niro EV.

I would suggest that having 9 unsold vehicles with substantial markups is a perfect example of the notion.

KIA dealers get their allotment of cars that they want (which readily sell at markup) when they take on and "warehouse" the ones they don't - those 9 overpriced Niro EVs.
 
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