Nürburgring

Discussion in 'Model S' started by bwilson4web, Sep 6, 2019.

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  1. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member


    Like I said, thats not a production car record if any calibrations are out of production spec. The Taycan record was done with production car calibrations, and I guarantee you Porsche does not cheat on that. GM when they set the Camaro record, or any corvette record runs the car on a chassis dyno before and after the run, and has 3rd party verification of most critical settings including ride height, steering alignment, oil weight, tire spec, and softness. GM also takes their record attempts one step further as they make all their alignment settings, and HP / Torque in the middle of the spec rather that the most optimized for the record run. Sometimes Companies use their track time to do final tuning on alignment, shocks, tires, etc, but when they want to record a record all of the calibrations are finalized.
     
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  3. Somehow I have my doubts that an S or that Audi pulled from a dealer showroom would be sent there bone stock without any tweaking from the production version.

    Anyway, I do understand your point. What I would like to see though, is how fast an EV car (tweaked and souped up) can actually do a lap time there. I know it is more than just hp, but a real test of steering, suspension, body strength, brakes, etc to handle that heavy battery car. So I was actually surprised the Audi didn't do better (given their ICE race experience) and all that EV motor torque they had to play with.

    That Kona rally car will be interesting. Should be a great test bed to develop and test components for eventual use in their production cars. That's what Subaru did in the old days with their rally cars. But their current WRX/STI cars are pretty long in the tooth right now.
     
  4. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

     
  5. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    I am not sure why you keep mentioning Audi, do you mean Porsche? If a maker is going to set a production record the car has to be in production trim, and calibrations and verified by a 3rd party. Tesla Model S is a really poor track car as are most EV's because of the battery weight but the Teslas also have advanced aerodynamics that while not creating much drag at low speeds both S and X generate lift at high speeds, and no downforce on the rear, the X was so bad they had to add a spoiler just to make it safe to drive fast, but the aero handling is atrociously bad. VW built the ID-R to overcome this, but that is a purpose built race car, using extremely high tech components and very advanced light weighting. The Taycan would be much faster if they chopped the battery in half, and lightened the car, as that is the first thing you do on any race vehicle is cut any weight you can as reduced mass helps accel, brake, and handling all at once. When you look at your WRX, and the Camaro example, both have a front splitter, and large rear wing for downforce, but there are lots of other little aero tricks to help the cars stick to the track.
     
  6. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member


    Another informative video about the Camaro team while they prepped for the Nurburgring lap

    Notice too, these are chassis engineers driving the car to these records, not professional race drivers .
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  8. Sorry, yes, meant the Porsche (Taycan). I know you have the e-Tron, and my brain and fingers were not quite in sync when I was replying to you. Would be interesting to see what your Audi could do as well, but of course would not expect anywhere near 7 min on that track. How do you think it would compare to an S? At least it should have some better handling attributes, if not raw power.
     
  9. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member


    Haha! I think that would be a race of the silly. I think the best model S time I have seen is near 9 minutes on the nurburgring, and they overheated the car, and burned up a set of brakes. I did not see or hear of Audi running the E-Tron on the Nurburgring (Mercedes did run the EQC but did not hear a lap time), but think it could finish a lap. Audi has a performance model E-Tron in the works for 2020, and I am sure they will take that one for a spin at the track. As for the current Model S vs E-Tron neither is going to run an impressive time, Its SUV against Sedan, E-tron might be over 10 minutes just looking at the physics of it. I am pretty sure the base E-tron would run with the base Tesla X, just because E-Tron has larger brakes, body does not create lift at high speed, and has a better thermal management system / regen.
     
  10. Yes, X vs e-Tron would be a better match.
     
  11. Roy_H

    Roy_H Active Member

    From what I have been reading, the Model S going to Nürburgring is a 2017 version, equipped with racing tires. Sending an older model does not make any sense to me, I thought it would be the very latest Raven design. Now I think this car must be a Tesla test mule, heavily modified, upgraded with latest Raven motors, suspension, battery, and Track Mode software. No pretense about being stock. We will find out soon.
     
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  13. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member


    Racing tires will not even get the Model S close to the Taycan, its the brakes that are the biggest issue. Maybe Tesla can get a lap under 9 minutes? I do not think Tesla is going to the Nurburgring, so far they have not made a track or garage reservation.
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Nice summary: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a20970523/engineers-and-drivers-explain-why-the-nurburgring-is-perfect-for-vehicle-development/

    However, Tesla won't be allowed to set a time. Tesla reached out to Road & Track to say how it is running the 'Ring.

    "Tesla is excited to be a part at the Industry Pool testing community next week at the Nürburgring. Our participation is confirmed and contracted by the Nürburgring," the company told R&T.

    Industry Pool testing is open lapping reserved exclusively for automakers—no privateers are allowed. Running a full lap to set a time is also not allowed during Industry Pool testing. That's likely because the track gets crowded with all kinds of vehicles from the various manufacturers.

    It makes sense to get some metrics and look at preliminary tweaking of the car.

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member


    Haha! Tesla S will be a slug, many people have tried the Nurburgring in public events, lots of overheating and brakes on fire...
     

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