Did ChargePoint increase their rates in 2019?

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Samebeef, Mar 21, 2020.

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  1. Sandroad

    Sandroad Well-Known Member

    Be a bit careful with generalizations. I think you’ll have a hard time finding any small engine manufacturer that recommends using blends over E10. I know that is also a generalization, but I did just check the Honda, Yamaha, Briggs, and Mercury web sites. All say stick with a maximum of E10.
     
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  3. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    I was referencing my long experience with E-10 in my post. Apologies for not specifying. I do not recommend stronger than E-10 for small engines. They're not designed for it.

    Certainly you should always follow manufacturer's recommendations for fuel, based on whatever machine you are fueling. Most say E-10 is acceptable. Some say E-15 is acceptable. Some say E-85 is acceptable. Some say only Diesel is acceptable. I could go on.

    But it's pretty dang difficult to find a modern (last 20+ years?) manufacturer of gasoline powered engines that says some sort of ethanol blend is NOT acceptable...

    As this is a Clarity forum, to bring us back on topic...Honda specifically says the following about the CLARITY:
    "Your vehicle is designed to operate on oxygenated gasoline containing up to 15% ethanol by volume." AND "Honda endorses the use of “TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline” where available to help maintain the performance and reliability of your vehicle."

    Notice how they do NOT say this car is designed to run on non-oxygenated (pure) gasoline? Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. Speculate freely. Maybe it needs the ethanol detergent properties to prevent varnish buildup that was extremely common in the pre-ethanol days?

    From a Clarity perspective, those avoiding common E-10 are simply wasting money and effort, and quite possibly using a non-recommended fuel. Clarity is actually fully designed to run on an ethanol blends, and as rich as 15%.

    I'll start the countdown to the irrelevant (for cars) hygroscopic speech from someone in 3...2...1...
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  4. Car dealers don’t typically provide free gas when you buy an ICE vehicle. Why would anyone expect free electricity when purchasing an EV?
     
  5. Samebeef

    Samebeef New Member

    Thank you my issue has been solved,...
     
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  6. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Thank you for returning after getting us hard-core posters started (and, of course then watching us wander off-topic)!
     
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  8. 60Hertz

    60Hertz Member

    Agree. Whoever owns the station sets the rate. Also can't believe that a Honda dealer would set such an outrageous rate. Apparently they are not too interested in selling anything electric. In my area (Wisconsin), the Honda dealers are some of the few places that still have free charging. The dealer where I purchased my Clarity has a sign out front that boldly states, "Free electricity -- we sell containers". Unfortunately they are too far out of the way to make it worthwhile stopping in there for some free charge. Kohl's stores were some of the first in the state to provide Level 2 EV charging in their parking lots for customers and used to be free but charging a fee within the past year. Most Kwik Trip stations in our area have free Level 1 charging (an outdoor 120V outlet) that I suspect they use just to get their stations to show up on the Chargepoint app, since Level 1 charging would not be practical for much unless you worked there.

    Overall I find that rates at public charging stations vary widely, so it is buyer beware. I think some are counting on you not looking or not caring how much you are paying to charge. I'll pay a small premium over what the gas would cost in HV mode just to enjoy driving all electric. But only up to a point, after which I'll skip the public charger and burn gas to get home where I can charge at 9 cents / kWh.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  9. petteyg359

    petteyg359 Well-Known Member

    FWIW, that's counterproductive. Given electricity is often cheaper in mpg than gas, paying extra for it reinforces the opposite view.
     
  10. 60Hertz

    60Hertz Member

    You're right of course. And when I said "small premium" that was a bit vague on my part as I didn't say exactly what I meant by "small". Out of curiosity, what is the max fee you personally are willing pay at a public charging station before you skip it and just go HV?
     
  11. petteyg359

    petteyg359 Well-Known Member

    I pay a nominal 21¢/kWh at home (including TDSP charges), but I also have "free nights" and I have shifted the vast majority of my usage (stovetop, oven, clothes dryer, dishwasher) to the free hours. I can't really shift air conditioning, but I use free night hours with the thermostat set to 70° so that the A/C doesn't come on as much during the day. The 4 kW of solar panels on my roof also help with the A/C during the day (but I have to choose between free nights or net metering). The actual price paid per kWh last month was under 5¢. So, if I really needed a charge away from home, I'd arbitrarily cap it $2 (the owner does have to pay for maintenance and property tax, after all) plus actual electric cost. Given I know damn well how competitive the electricity market is around here (central and north Texas), I am absolutely not willing pay any higher than 10¢/kWh away from home.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  13. 60Hertz

    60Hertz Member

    Wow. Hard to beat free charging at home. I'm jealous. I've been on my utility's time-of-use program since 1991. Way back I was paying 3.5 cents/kWh off peak. Current off-peak rate these days is 9 cents/kWh. I use about 85 percent of my electric energy off peak. When it comes to public charging, there are not very many yet where I live. The the few that are around are on the ChargePoint network, and they all have fees that are structured in dollars per hour. I try to keep things simple, so I figure a more or less full charge takes about 2 hours on an L2 6kW+ public charger, and gives me enough energy to drive car about the same distance as a gallon of gas in HV mode. So I take 2x the hourly charging fee and compare that to the cost of a gallon of gas. The going rate of gasoline in my area is about $2.20-$2.30 a gallon, so that would mean a charging fee of $1.10 to $1.15 per hour is the break-even point for electric vs. gasoline. These numbers are by no means precise to the penny, but like I said I'm keeping it simple and making some approximations so that I don't have to pull out a calculator every time I pull up to a public charger. So this is where the "small premium" I mentioned earlier comes into play. There is a charging station at a shopping center where I go to from time to time that charges $1.25/hour, and I will use it if I need a little charge to get home in EV mode. I know, shame on me for wasting the 20-30 cents and setting a bad example. However, there are some stations in my area that have a fee as much as $2.00 per hour, which I flatly refuse to use. A nearby city, which has it's own municipal electric utility, built out a bunch of charging stations at public parks, library, zoo, etc., which would have been a great thing except they priced them all at $2.00 per hour. Not surprising, they hardly ever get used. I sent the utility a very polite e-mail explaining that their charging stations are not getting used because they are priced out of the market. That was a black hole of course, so now I just drive by the empty charging stations and shake my head.
     
  14. zeno15

    zeno15 New Member

    I understand that gas stations are wary about electric vehicles, but this isn't the case. Gas stations make a cent or less per gallon, so it's not a big moneymaker for them.

    The store, as well as the extremely profitable drinks and snacks, are the main cash cows for gas stations.
     

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