Tapping or Creaking Noise when coasting at low speed

This is too late to help MLB but might help others. It is most evident on mine at speeds from around 17-28 mph. It might be a sweet spot between making the noise loud enough but road noise is still quiet enough. Not sure. It’s definitely harder to hear the road is rougher and louder.

I suggest driving it yourself with a service advisor in the car


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It is most evident on mine at speeds from around 17-28 mph. It might be a sweet spot between making the noise loud enough but road noise is still quiet enough. Not sure. It’s definitely harder to hear the road is rougher...[/QUOTE]

I put my cellphone inside the motor bay (passenger side, near the brake reservoir) and drove around an empty school parking lot to record the noise. Over 30 mph, it was inaudible.

 

I'm curious for people who have managed to get this fixed out of warranty, do you have a ballpark of the cost? In the meantime I'm going to install a magnet on the oil filler cap try to get the oil changed.

I'm a little worried because the noise is noticeable even at higher speeds, particularly when going uphill. I'm really hoping that this is just an annoyance and not something that will lead to a catastrophic failure.

 

Mine is also noticeable at higher speeds. On the highway you can hear a low but definite "grrrrrrr".

 

I posted on your other thread. It's not a terrible idea to change the oil and it's an easy DIY if you work on your own car, use 1 qt Redline MT-LV. It will be black as tar, save it in case you need it as evidence. Don't bother with the magnetic plug.

 

Should those of us who are not having this issue assume that this is going to be something most will experience at some point, especially if not getting the oil changed early on? Or does it still seem that this is something only happening to a relatively small minority of these cars?

 

It is important to note that there have been vanishingly few mechanical failures of Niro EVs. Perhaps noisy motors are detected soon enough to avoid catastrophe.

SWAG follows : this problem appears rare, and confined to the first model year with the 710 motor. If you're past 30,000 miles, in a later model year,, and have not detected a problem, it's unlikely to spontaneously appear.

If most of your driving is at higher speeds, slowly drive through an empty parking lot with your windows up for a "tick test".

*****

Most of us that experienced the problem were not upset by the noise, but rather, put out by KIA's slow response to a known problem.

 

I think in reality it's a very rare condition, but it seems that many who encounter this suddenly sign up to a forum to express their alarm. We know that it's common enough for both Kia and Hyundai to issues TSBs but I would venture a rough guess that it really only affects under 0.1% of the fleet. Saying that, I'll note there have been a lot of new complaints just in the last few weeks.

Anecdotally I've noticed that many affected live in cold climates. Canada and Germany have had quite a few while here in NZ and Australia there are not so many reported.

If the noise is in fact caused by the particle-laden oil, what is happening is that the ball-bearing life curve is being compromised. A bearing with clean lubrication has a lifetime based on revolutions and a statistical confidence level such as 95%. The normal lifetime is far, far more revolutions than would be required for a consumer-oriented car and better matched to industrial applications that need to run 24/7 for a decade.

Once contamination is introduced the life variability will be much poorer and a few cases will 'dip' into the relatively-short life typical of a car. I'll note that in the perhaps four cases where a gearbox noise has been corrected by the owner or their mechanic, only the ball bearings were replaced.

 

Thanks for sharing- good to know. Given that mine is a year old now and no dealers near me are willing to do an oil change on mine, I think I will just roll with the regular maintenance schedule and hope that my gearbox is not going to be compromised by any metal shavings that might be in there.

 

I don't know if it's the same issue or there are multiple motor issues, but other owners report the actual motor being replaced, not just the gear box or bearings. It seems to be common enough that people report the noise even if they don't get it fixed. If you don't have any sound at all, I wouldn't give it another thought, no point stressing over something that hasn't affected you.

My car seems to have ALL the defects...so I must just be the unluckiest person here, LOL.

 

Yes, both motor and gearbox are at risk, as the TSB infers.
Of the several videos from this YouTube channel covering the Niro/Kona, this one covers everything. The auto-generated closed captions are a bit ropey but you can get the gist of it. He overhauls the gearbox, finds the noise still there and then locates the problem in the motor. The gear oil appears to have been changed prior to this work because it's quite clean inside.

Even though with frequent oil changes I'm confident that I won't have a gearbox problem, the motor tail bearing spin is a weakness that I can't do anything to avoid on my early (Sept-2018) Kona. it's entirely possible the problem was addressed in the motor revisions made later.

 

My Kia dealer still hasn't received the parts for the first try of the fix after 2 1/2 months... They have no idea when they will arrive. And if it doesn't fix it, I will then have to wait for parts for the next phase. Of well, my car still runs, and efficiency is as high as ever.

 

Just an update, someone replied to me in a reddit thread I made that they were in the exact same boat; second owner, problem showed up, they were past the 60,000 mile powertrain warranty for the second owner. Their dealership had apparently quoted them $14,000 to fix the issue, which seems insane to me.

In digging I discovered that the motor and gearbox are supposed to be covered by the "electric vehicle systems warranty" which is a 10yr/100,000 mile warranty that's fully transferrable. In fact, the gearbox and motor are the first things mentioned as being explicitly covered by this warranty.

here's the photos from my warranty booklet: https://imgur.com/a/VRs8TXe

I have an appointment to bring my car into my local dealership next wednesday afternoon. Last time both they and kia corporate over the phone told me I was out of the drivetrain warranty so I would have to pay out of pocket. Hopefully this time I get to hear something different.

 

In my case, the dealer replaced the motor and brackets and while I wasn't charged, the cost was shown as $15,000. So yeah, seems insane but maybe I guess that's the going rate?

That fixed the issue for maybe a month? Then it started up again and progressively got worse to the point that I could easily hear the "whine" at highway speeds (OK, "whine" isn't the best descriptor, but I don't have a word for a ticking at very high frequency where the ticks blend into a single sound.) After two trips back to the dealer (they claimed they couldn't hear the noise the first time) they replaced the reducer gear assembly. Again, I wasn't charged, but the cost was around $7,000. That was just a couple of weeks ago and driving home everything seemed fine. For reasons, we didn't drive the car for a week or so. When I finally did drive it, I had the tapping sound bad only when the car is in a higher regen mode (either by setting regen to 3 or by applying brakes.) I don't hear it at all when applying power under load at low speeds (e.g. going slowly up a decent hill.) Now it's just the opposite.

I'm surprised and sad to see this thread still going strong. I read it back in summer 2019 right before we got ours and hoped I wouldn't be unlucky. Well, that didn't work out. I love my Niro EV but my issue has been going on for about a year and I question my dealer's ability to fix it. I'm curious. Has anyone actually had this issue fixed? (I know, the people who had had their issues quickly and satisfactorily resolved are probably not reading this monster thread.)

 

Stories like yours pop up all the time on the mainstream Kona, Niro and Ioniq forums. Those (US$) prices are even higher than I imagined and in some countries (e.g. here in NZ) warranties are short so owners may have to foot the bill. At some point Hyundai/Kia/Mobis need to put on their big boy pants and accept that they have made design mistakes and must take responsibility, just like they did for the early Kona's traction battery with defective LG Energy cells.

They must know about these because the 2023+ Niro and 2024+ Kona have design changes that make them not susceptible to the two flaws that are thought to be present, detailed in the video on my previous post.

All owners appear get this fixed eventually, noting some above are having exceptional trouble. If you have a new reducer and you're going to keep the car, my personal advice is to get an oil change after no later than 1,500 miles (or ASAP) at an independent shop that is familiar with the Nissan Leaf. Take 1 bottle of Redline MT-LV and tell them not to spill any.

 

I'm curious what motor variant you all are running when you post about experiences (eg @hank_scorpio)

 

Unfortunately I don't know for sure the variant of my first motor (though I would assume 710 for a 2019) and even after replacement it looks like I still have a 710. (When this first started last year I tried to find the motor/label and I misunderstood where it was and never found it. Saw a picture today that clued me in and was able to get a shot of my current motor's label.)

 

as an update, I've been going around in circles with the dealership and Kia corporate for two weeks. Right now they're trying to get it covered as a goodwill reimbursement.

If they don't get it taken care of pretty soon I'm setting up an appointment with a local lawyer. The motor and gearbox seem to explicitly be covered by a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty, Kia just doesn't seem to be aware that they printed a warranty document and put it in my car.

It's too bad, I'm very happy with the car, just unhappy with the service. I had been thinking about replacing my niro with something like an ioniq 6 in four or 5 years, but this experience has pretty much convinced me that buying a hyundia or kia just isn't worth it.

 

Did you have evidence of the misrepresentation like a photo of the car on the lot with that 10/100 warranty displayed? Or is it written in your sales contract?

Your Kia holds forensic evidence of a defect and Kia might be motivated to 'buy' that off you. But a goodwill repair here won't stop the ongoing failures that are yet to come from other owners.

This report appeared 2 days ago on Reddit, Australia. Owner is upset about the delay but doesn't realise how fortunate they are to be under warranty.

 

I have a booklet of warranty information that was included as part of the manual. Googling around I've seen a couple of anecdotes online from people going through similar ordeals and eventually getting the car fixed. If the car get's repaired for free I don't really care if considered warranty work, or classified as a "good will" repair, or classified as a recall. It's just accounting on Kia's end as far as I'm concerned. If Kia refuses to pay for repairs, or only offers a partial refund, I plan to pursue legal action to force them to honor the warranty, or else buy back the car.

if I end up without a car for 4 months that would be pretty upsetting, even if you are getting it fixed under warranty.
In California it looks like you have a potential lemon law if the car has been held for repairs for more than 30 days, although it seems like you really need multiple trips to the dealership to really have a strong case.