Off-topic discussion about possible Tesla-hate

I'm sorry to see so much hatred against Tesla. I guess all of the negative propaganda against the disrupter has paid off.
I highly recommend that, before writing a Tesla off, you swing by your closest Tesla Supercharger. You'll undoubtedly find a few there and you can ask real Tesla owners what kinds of real problems they've faced instead of just reading the media.
Most Tesla owners on forums are either rabid fanbois or trolls but most Tesla drivers are out driving around enjoying their rides. I'm an EV fan and am on this forum to try to help newcomers, with any kind of EV, to end their oil dependence. I try to counter a lot of the BS which is sewn, trying to prevent EVs from disrupting the massive investments in ICE vehicles. While I see Tesla as by far the best. In the past few years, some of the others have seemed to have become viable. I'm just disappointed with this Kona news.
I just had my first Tesla maintenance in 3.3 years and 104K miles. It was a pre-emptive replacement of the 12v accessory battery and my Mobile Charging Cord. The car told me the battery needed to be replaced, I never experienced any problems. Even though I'm way out of warranty, they charged me nothing. A Tesla technician came to my house in a Model S converted to be a mobile repair facility with tool boxes replacing the rear seat.
Additionally, the safety of the Teslas is far superior than any other car ever built. My brother was T-boned in his Model Y by a minivan blowing through a red light at over 55 mph last month. He walked away (car totaled). In any other similar sized car, he probably would have been killed.
I know one person who rejected his Model Y because of cosmetic issues like have been reported. They got him another car that was satisfactory. These issues, like all with Tesla, have improved though.
I've driven over 1100 miles in one day using Superchargers and crossed the USA in 3 days. On road trips, I see Teslas from all states at all Superchargers. I see almost no one at CCS charging stations. That blatant asymmetry tells a lot. Teslas are great road-trip cars. With autopilot, they are better IMHO, than an ICE. The only downside vs ICE is that you need to have your meals where there are Superchargers in order to minimize your travel time, thus restricting your meal options a bit. Fortunately, there are many Superchargers and most are well sited with good facilities nearby.
This total recall just seems all too reminiscent of my past EV-1 experience.

 

SeanH
Thanks for taking the time to consider and share your experiences and opinions of Tesla. You are wrong in a few places but I hope to respectfully address everything.

This is a legitimate personal preference situation. Having had an MG with the speedometer, gauges, and controls to the right of the wheel, just like the Mini Cooper, I have no problem with the concept. My eyes never come off the road though: that is a complete misnomer.
You're mistaken with some of your complaints. Knowing the truth would give you more choices and help your credibility. You are right about half the time though. With the Model 3/Y"

This is a falsity created by, then amplified by critics and the ignorant. If you push in on the end of the turn signal stalk (has a standard icon of a windshield washer on it), the windshield wiper comes on. If you push hard, the washer comes on.

The headlight never turns off. I do admit that having to go to the touch screen to go to parking-light when approaching a security gate is a bit of a pain, however, most times, there's a line that autopilot is tracking so it isn't hard or unsafe to hit the screen control. The problems are when approaching the gate late at night when nobody is there and you need to go to parking-lights while moving toward the gate. I generally slow down a lot, to be safe, turn to parking-lights only, then proceed.

The automatic temperature control of the HVAC is fine with me but others in my family who like to blow warm or cold air do have trouble with this and, perhaps tactile controls would help them.

You're mistaken here: The left scroll wheel on the steering wheel is a tactile volume control.

Your loss then. Mistakes happen. Tesla has made many of them in their efforts to reduce costs and improve performance. They have fixed them though.

They've always institutionally claimed that the money would deliver it when it is available. One has always had to sign an agreement acknowledging that it is not available now. They tell the truth. I haven't chosen to pay for it because I knew it would be a long time and I'd rather save my money for other pro-EV efforts.

More power to the others. It's all good. Tesla, however, has a whole lot more data than anyone else though. If you know anything about machine learning, the more sample space you have, the faster you can converge. Tesla even customers willing to pay to help train their systems but, those who don't want to pay for it don't have to. Freedom of choice isn't all bad.

IMHO, this was a pretty bad screw up by Tesla. Agreed. They made a technical mistake, then blew it with their response. Hardly a capital crime but understandable if it drives you away.

This is just a teething problem. In the long run hotels will have charging stations. Some folks clearly aren't meant to be pioneers though.

What version of Model S did you have? There is night and day difference between the old Model S (especially the Model S 75) and the Model 3 Long Range in the charging time. I seldom spend more than about 20 minutes charging and, for a short 300 mile trip like Pittsburgh to Detroit, I'd only stop once, for about 10 minutes in a Model 3 LR. You have to use the right tool for the right job and know how to use it. It is certainly cheaper overall, to buy a slightly larger battery for your Model S/X or 3/Y than have to keep an ICE (especially an expensive XC90) just for infrequent trips.

I'm glad there are people who are willing to give other EVs a try. I had a Leaf for 105K miles (nieces and nephews have it now) and my wife has a Volt. I just hope that not too many, with anti-Tesla mentalities, go to ICE when they find the offerings by those who don't want to make EVs, don't live up to their needs or desires.
It particularly bothers me when some of your criteria, which would be understandable, are based on wrong information.
Thanks for sharing: It gave me a chance to share a couple of truths.

 

I understand the confusion a bit. The issues come when those who "chose not to buy a Tesla" start listing their reasons.
I guess the problem is that what one reads about with Teslas and what most Tesla owners experience most, if not all, of the time, are so diametrically opposed.
Clearly, the majority of the news media and the click farms that pose as news media dig for and amplify bad stuff about Tesla. It becomes hard to tell whether forum posters who parrot the bad stuff are intentionally spreading it or just naively playing into their hands. Most of us just are saddened to see people buy these other cars because their money could go so much farther and they wouldn't be giving EVs such a bad reputation.
Tesla is giving us an alternative to ICE. Many of us see that as a good thing despite their warts and blemishes. The ICE manufacturers are reluctantly coming along while dragging their feet as much as possible. While this is logical, given their investment in and comfort with ICE technology, it is not appreciated by those of us who want an alternative to oil dependence.
Tesla drivers, however, just blissfully drive everywhere they want, easily, and comfortably. Having owned other EVs (Leaf and Volt), I've been appalled at other fellow drivers of such EVs rationalizations about how easy it is to live within the limitations of their cars. This includes: ICE Rentals on weekends (not sustainable if all cars are EVs), "I always drive slowly", I like to take time stopping a lot when traveling, I take my ICE on trips (ignoring the cost to own and maintain an ICE), "I fly on long trips so I don't need much range", etc. In reality, they are good for some things but have severe limitation that Teslas don't.

 

Good point. I guess I was trying to encourage folks to get beyond some of the misconceptions and see that a Tesla is worth considering.
Sorry if I ended up hijacking your good thread.

 

My motivation is that I want to end our society's dependence on oil for all of the usual reasons. Over the past 30 years, I've seen that EV technology appears to be a viable and good option for doing so. Getting them, however, has been a 30 year uphill battle.
I've been a part of many different fora but recently came here because it seems to have a lot of good, non-Tesla information from which I can learn (that's why I look at the Kona threads) but also because it contains so much mis-information about EVs which I hope to be able to correct.
In that vein, I may be able to share some information that may help you with your concerns about Tesla. I've been a Tesla customer since 2006 and a Tesla driver since 2008. I, too, prefer to drive a car until "its wheels fall off". In my extended family, there are 10 Teslas. 5 of them are off warranty. The oldest ones are 2008 Roadsters. The oldest mainstream one is a 2012 Model S. Clearly, these are all very early cars with different issues than ones you would buy today so there's no clear answer that can address your concerns.
Tesla, just like any car company, has trouble keeping up with parts supply for old cars, especially very low-volume ones such as Roadsters. They do, however, try to fix them. There was a time, when they were going through admitted "Production Hell" with the Model 3, that we had trouble getting them to pay attention to Roadster issues. They have changed their tune, however. This is probably because folks like you had legitimate concerns and the only answer that could be provided wasn't painting them well.
Our 13 year old batteries are still doing ok but are starting to show age. We just did a 1000 mile road trip in a Roadster last weekend but it was down ~20% in capacity and we saw some power reduction at low state of charge when driving hard. The Power Electronic Modules are starting to go bad with age, apparently due to deterioration of insulation in the capacitors. Tesla has a program in place to provide rebuilt ones. There have been a couple of efforts by Tesla to provide replacement batteries. The first one sort of petered out, possibly due to lack of interest by most since the originals were still usable, however, there's apparently another effort that started recently to begin providing replacement batteries.
Clearly, as batteries have a shelf-life, they couldn't just make a lot to have lying around as spares.
Also, given the small number of these cars, there's no economy of scale so the cost of these parts is high, just as with any other similar low-volume performance car.
The 9 year old Model S is still fine except that the web browser doesn't work. This is most likely because there isn't enough computer horsepower to handle all of the software enhancements. Tesla has had no trouble supporting it.
4 of the cars (including the oldest) are in a place that was initially about 60 miles from a Tesla service center. Mobile service rangers used to come out to do minor work (such as pre-emptive 12v accessory battery replacement), however, about 4 years ago, Tesla stationed a mobile service technician in the town so service is easy today. Big repairs (like a window regulator) still have to go to the service center.
My 3+ year old Model 3 with 104K miles is technically out of bumper-to-bumper warranty. However, 3 weeks ago, Tesla just preemptively replaced my 12v accessory battery and my Mobile Charging Connector with a mobile service ranger visit, free of charge. Whether they will continue such premium service is, of course, unknown.

Taking a Tesla to an 'indy garage', unless they actually know about Teslas is kind of like taking a computer to a plumber for repair - not really the right tool for the job. Anyone can do tire changes and alignments (and I suppose shocks although we haven't had to change any yet). There are a few independent Tesla repair shops cropping up who can handle them (1 in LA, 1 in Phoenix, and 1 in Seattle), however, for the most part you are dependent upon Tesla for service at this point. https://grubermotors.com is the one in Phoenix. Tesla doesn't just send parts to someone who will more than likely electrocute themselves. I can understand how this could be a turn-off for some.

There are definitely a lot of unknowns with Tesla going forward and they have made mistakes. So far, however, we've been happy that Tesla is leading the charge to allow us to skip the gas stations.

I hope I've helped you to decide how to deal with the Kona buyback, whatever decision you make. I also hope that you are able to continue gas-free.

 

I concur and hope that your explanation, my rebuttal, and your responses will help others to make good, informed decisions for themselves, since they are presented with this dilemma.
I don't want to waste their time with another round. In generally, I see that your responses share your valid opinions and preferences. There are only a few picky differences I see in the machine learning aspects that we don't need to bore the rest on this forum with. I'll be happy to discuss on another thread if you start one.

 

Unfortunately, this is yet another piece of mistaken info as well (I've been corrected that "misnomer" is probably the wrong term). I'd be happy to try to meet you in a snowy parking lot somewhere in North America with my RWD Tesla and you in any FWD from any manufacturer for a little snowy road autocross. I'd even trade cars so you could see for yourself.
You'd see that, with the weight distribution of a ground-up designed EV with well-tuned traction control, RWD is better in snow than FWD.
Sorry if I'm off-putting. That is a risk.
Most Tesla drivers have just written off fora like this. I'm still tilting at a few windmills though in hopes that some might benefit.

 

Given all of the anti-EV trolls that abound and whom they've influenced, it really isn't that easy. Through name calling and cyber-bullying, they'll throw every pro-EV person and true fact off the internet by whatever means possible.
I've been being told to quit promoting EVs since the 1990's and I've been given all sorts of reasons why. I even had my first one taken away from me and crushed against my will.
I haven't gone totally insane myself yet (emphasis on totally). In fact, overall, I'm feeling a lot of vindication as I can hardly go anywhere without regularly seeing EVs from many different manufacturers.
I've annoyed a few anti-Tesla folks in the past trying to keep them from driving people away from EVs. I suggested that their over-zealous fanboi promotion of early compliance EVs is just as likely to steer people toward ICE as to an EV once they see how limited they were. One even got a bunch of people together to suggest I should be locked up (and one was a city councilman) for saying that always driving 55 mph on a 65 mph freeway in order to get more EV range is giving the people driving around them a bad view of EVs. I never quite understood their logic against me. I guess they believed that suggesting driving the legal speed limit is promoting dangerous behavior.
Unintentionally, the ones mentioned above are now Tesla owners and supporters now that the affordable Model 3 came out. From the beginning, I suspected that it was "sour grapes" without enough foresight to see what was coming.
I actually came over to this site to see if, perhaps, I should add the Kona to the list of EVs that I recommend people consider for their first EV and to understand the appropriate caveats that should come with such recommendations.
I've seen that it may be viable, again, as with all EVs (including Tesla), there are caveats. I have learned, however, that the Kona does charge at a relatively good rate and that the EA infrastructure is improving, making road-trips more viable. This puts it ahead of the Bolt in many cases.
Unfortunately, I was appalled at the mis-information that was being spread around here as fact.
I could just let it go like most. Or I could sow a little correct information around in hopes that, at least a few, go out and check things out for themselves - even if their only motivation is to prove me wrong.
Eventually, other car companies may see, by watching the growing industry, how to do EVs correctly. They may even be able to support legitimate preferences that others (including me) have for doing things differently. Then we may actually have good choices of EVs available to make everyone happy.