I saw many of the same things Warren did in my light smimming of their presentation. I couldn't continue watching it because it was embarrasing. But came back to it briefly and then read some articles about it. I see parallels with the Nikola stuff and the GM presentations and even the Ford presentations- the Ford stuff was a little higher grade. But its like they all have the same reality show scripter behind the scenes. In the Nikola case its not surprising to see the sponsored media try to pitch Nikola as legitimate but why? There is something about the Lucid dashboard it looks like the Lyric dash. And is there a reason the Lucid factory is biking distance from the Nikola factory in AZ? Really my questions with them go on and on but I think Warren hits it. My guess is it is some of the same financial backing behind the two companies. I thought Lucid had actual product but I am thinking its seems unlikely now- I thought their claim to be competing with high end ICE was just plain stupid- Tesla destroys that. So many inconsistencies. What is going on? Is it because Tesla is de-capitalizing the big 2.5 that they (maybe just GM) throw these distractions out to try to re-aquire capital through acquisitions?
More apparent Lucid BS. Now some site says they saw a car body with Lucid painted on and it looked like it had a faster speed than the plaid protype. But that's a track you can get an official speed at. Given its Lucid for all we know its a reskinned Model S. Didn't lool like it was moving that fast. Hindenburg and others need to look at this Lucid because its sounding more like Nikola. Imagine that might be coming because Redlich is apparently an attorney even though he wasn't acting in that capacity in commenting.
Calm my friends. In a couple of months, the production Air will show up and the EPA Test Car Database metrics will be available. Using metrics from pre-production cars runs risks. Bob Wilson
Thanks for mentioning this. No I do not see myself getting involved in a Hindenburg report. I was just badly disappointed by the Lucid reveal. Now that I've seen the response to the video, I'm actually more convinced we will never see a Lucid Air sold to a customer. It feels like Lucid hired a small number of trolls to attack me in the comments and on Twitter. And they're not even good at it. They repeat the same stock lies using the same language: "Race-proven technology" - The Formula E race cars use Murata (formerly under the Sony brand) batteries in the 18650 cylindrical size (same as Model S/X). The Murata batteries have a cycle life of only 300 and that's if you treat them right (only charge to 80% at the right temperature, for example). See: https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Sony%20US18650VTC6%203000mAh%20(Green)%20UK.html Lucid is using LG Chem batteries of unknown chemistry and The Formula E pack is laid out in competely different manner. Lucid only assembled the battery packs and maybe the BMS. Most of the rest was done by McLaren. I'm not saying it's nothing. Lucid's involvement is impressive. But it's not everything. Porsche has a lot more race-proven technology and experience and the Taycan barely manages 200 miles of range. "independent tests confirm 517 mile range" - The range testing was allegedly done by a company named FEV, which appears to be a legit company. Neither Lucid nor FEV has released the report showing what was in the vehicle that was tested. Maybe it had a 200 kWh pack? We don't know. I'm struck by how all other media and YouTubers are uncritically touting Lucid's claims without questioning anything. One video showed the rear seat floor was unusually high forcing the passengers' knees up. Journalists rode in the Lucid's back seat only, and one was not allowed to plug in his laptop because that would hurt range. Meanwhile comments on my video are strongly supportive of my criticism, and the thumbs-up vs thumbs-down ratio is 10-1. Is the funding adequate? They built 700,000 square feet of factory space and have 1000 people on payroll. I think they might run out of money before they ever have a product.
Thank you to Warren. Insideevs just did a 4 way video where some sponsored looking appologies for Lucid were offered. First one was a guest saying Lucid seems way more credible because Peter Rawlinson said a couple of times (2nd hand quaotation on my part) "we're nothing until customers have product in hand." My take on that it its a disclaimer along the lines of: we're about to try to mislead you, if you find we succeeded, you were warned. Lucid also repeated the "all made entirely in house" claim that Nikola constantly made. That's a claim leveled at groups like GM which increasingly outsource everything and suffer from: not invented here syndrome. Hearing it from start ups is a ridiculous tell. And the "we're nothing till customers have product in hand" sounds a bit like Nikola saying not having product when we led investors to believe we had it and upon which our valution in IPO was based is not a problem because we have the product now. When they really apparently mean we never had product and were only attempting to outsource it and although we recognize we have no credibility now we are presenting yet another bluff and you must believe it because no one would be this audacious. Really? Then show the product and don't say its being made in Germany. Its like check kiting. And all of this is like Enron's 'mark to market' invention where they for instance booked a natural gas power plant in India and claimed the revenue and profit up front knowing it was years from from ever being switched on and knowing the customers could never pay the inflated prices but gaming the derivatives sold to US pension funds to insure debt on the stranded from the start 'asset' to cover the default. Its multi level marketing can kicking ponzi language. Then you have Gates the day before the GM deal is announced claiming the Tesla semi is unworkable in his characteristic green washing attempts to carry water for fossil fuels. You always get this anointed ponzi stuff with natural gas or its front hydrogen. Then JP Morgan with its fossil fuel dervatives and unnecessary ill advised financing of 200 billion in new fossil fuels over the last few years has one of its shill analyst defend Nikola in the media and says the stock rose because of it when it was probably JP Morgan and cohorts pumping the stock with more purchases to kick the can on the ponzi a couple more feet down the road. Then you have Tom Moloughy from Insideevs spouting a Nikola talking point about the SEC or the DOJ investigating Hindenburg- when that doesn't seem to be the case and would be rich given the short seller behavior with Tesla these agencies did nothing about. More and more I suspect its GM behind these start ups and behind a lot of the short seller behavior. Its like their mo. If Tesla raises the range on its Semi the vaporware hydrogen claims will rise to match its range, just like they were lowering to match it to seem more credible. Lucid plays this game. Pretty sure I remember early claims out of Nikola that its long haul semi would go 1400 miles. But recently that claim was scaled down to 800 then to be just slightly more expensive and less efficient than Tesla old estimates until it was revealed to be all hot air. This is like Lutz constantly projecting on behalf of GM that Tesla has no secret sauce. People know GM has now secret sauce, all its EV parts are now called Ultium and that's not even competitive and it has no prospect of getting competitive so it tries to hype these little start up shell games to try to kick its marketing ponzi to say it could bootstrap its way out with acquistions or anything to suggest it has options when it doesn't. But then it gets caught. Right now its debt is about equal to its revenue about the same for Ford. But shilling again 2 of the people in the insideevs video referenced above started saying Ford will do great with its super conservative not from the ground up friction lined electric truck because of fleet sales and the non lifestyle crowd. Thanks to Domineck for pointing out that they don't make money on fleets and as for work trucks even with the tax padding and tarrifs electric vans will sink their sunk cost in ICE. But in particular the big 2.5 can't survive without their inflated pick up profits- and being pushed into pick ups was all about hiding behind a tarif to game CAFE with heavier vehicles.
On the Lucid Air and follow up capabilities: I'm not shopping :: My 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3 fully meets my EV requirements along with the backup 2014 BMW i3-REx. Wait six months :: Let's see if they deliver as we've already seen other EV companies "reorganize" out of existence. Tesla and ARK investments :: I don't see even an IPO out there and not enough value added engineering. The Lucid motor, power-to-weight ratio are interesting. I would caution against assigning venal motivations when the simplest is ignorance and lack of skills. Yes, there are bad people out there but start with simple before accusing them of immorality. Bob Wilson
@ Bob. Good point about no IPO for Lucid yet. That is different even if it may be coming. And good point about not assuming immorality.
I don't think Lucid is looking for an IPO yet. I think they're looking for a new funding round so they can survive long enough to demonstrate some kind of viable product. The references to an IPO are made to attract big pre-IPO investment. I also see Rawlinson suggesting they would let OEMs use their tech to make EVs. I don't think GM is the target. Maybe VW. A lot of Germans on the team.
