Elephant in the room

The finger-pointing begins...

https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/tech/2020/10/419_297311.html

 

If Hyundai reduced the vehicle's range to 80% of it's purchased ranged, who would ever... ever buy a Kona EV. I don't think they would be able to stay in production of EV's not to mention damage to Hyundai's reputation. Example... I but and ICE car with 200hp. The manufacturer says "oops" the hp should only be 160hp. Would that fly? Example of VW. They misrepresented their pollution of their small diesel engines. It cost them about 2 billion in fines (Electrify America) to resolve it. Hyundai would be far ahead to just replace defective batteries with a battery from someone other than LG Chem. They could take the old batteries and resell them for used and recover some of their value.
We haven't seen what they are going to do so I hate to speculate what I will do. If they aren't upfront with what they are going to do, I suppose there will be a class action suit.

 

“During the National Assembly audit on Thursday, Hyundai Motor President Seo Bo-shin, who is in charge of quality control, said the company "admits the defects in vehicles" and "has found a solution" to fix the defects, "though it is not perfect."

Sounds, like it’s a hardware problem. A perfect solution would be to replace the broken hardware. I get the impression their fix may be another imperfect software patch. I gotta felling we are going to be less than impressed with Hyundai’s response.

 

At the time, my wife and I both had VW diesels, and I remember the VW situation well. But keep in mind that the VW case was criminal fraud between Bosch and VW. And it cost them far more than the 2bn$ in fines - they had to buy back a boatload of vehicles, and give restitution to people who opted to keep the cars (as long as they had an approved repair performed). VW bought back mine - my wife still has hers. I must say however that the Hyundai situation has a lot of the same vibe here as the early days of dieselgate when it was first discovered that VW was cheating.

There is a lot of speculation about what Hyundai *might* do, and none of us know what they *will* actually do. Some here believe that they will just push the existing BMS update and replace batteries if required. I am not seeing the 80% limit discussed anywhere in the press - things are moving pretty fast right now, so I would suggest that everyone sit tight and wait to see what is announced in the coming days.

I should add that one scenario comes to mind. Based on discussions with a Korean engineer, it sounds like when the update is *correctly* applied, that if a cell group deviates by between 0.10V and 0.15V, then the CEL light is illuminated, and you are supposed to be able to still charge the car (with an altered and reduced charging curve). Could it be that the reduced charging curve limits you to 80% SOC? Is this where that figure originates? All speculation on my part..

 

I think anyone with any EV knowledge understands the conditions required to reach the advertised range and a loss of 20% is reasonable.

People in cold climates charging between 20 & 80% certainly don’t expect to see the rate range. But they know they have it available when needed under certain conditions.


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A forced loss of 20% is not reasonable.

 

The problem I am having now is that my vehicle was manufactured BEFORE the recall dates. So effectively, my car is not 'recalled', but might have the problem of catching fire. Again, Hyundai does not give a good explanation as to why they chose those dates in particular for the recall. So, what about people like me who's car is not in the recall date, but is getting pushed by Hyundai to undergo the BMS update??? If my car is not affected, they why are they pushing me to get the update??? Makes no freaking sense, other than to cut some liability off Hyundai.

 

I have never owned an ICE vehicle that has achieved the advertised MPG. Why are we holding EVs to a higher standard?


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That isn't the same thing here, in this situation, it would be the equivalent of the manufacturer filling 4 gallons of your 20 gallon gas tank with lead, meaning you can never get a truly full tank again. You wouldn't allow a *CE vehicle to have that done to it, why should we accept it with an EV?

 

Why is Tesla charging $9,000 more for a higher capacity battery for its LR model, as opposed to a lower capacity battery???

 

That has nothing to do with this conversation. Hyundai is reportedly limiting the maximum capacity of the batteries to 80% after they were purchased. That is simply not acceptable.

 

It is so related. Because limiting the maximum capacity to 80% means you are effectively getting a lower capacity battery. It means the battery is not worth as much, and the buyer should not be paying 100% for an 80% capacity battery.

 

No, it means that Hyundai should be required to buy the vehicle back at full purchase price or replace the battery with one that charges to 100%. Now I could see limiting to 80% while waiting for a new battery to come in, but not acceptable.

 

I think it’s very similar...
I have a c6 corvette . It’s rated at 18 mpg combined. I have never even achieved 16mpg. It’s the same as removing a few gallons from my tank. This is new tech and future. We have to expect some bumps in the road.


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Actually, it is tech that dates back to some of the very first cars. Yes the exact process may be updated, but the tech really isn't new.

 

Recoil45, you have it all wrong. Driving conditions has a great deal of determining your MPG. We are not talking about MPG, we are talking about reducing your gas tank from holding 20 gallons to now 16 gallons. No matter how efficient you drive, you permanently loss that 4 extra gallons in your tank.

Losing that extra 4 gallons in your tank means you don't travel as far. Have to stop more often to fill the tank. etc.

 

Ultimately range is the only meaningful metric.

In an EV you can drive as efficiently as possible. If it’s 32F out you can’t reach the advertised range. I can drive like grandpa in my c6, can’t hit advertised range. It is what it is...


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Ours was built July 3rd 2020

it’s a 2021 model

curious to see if this eventually affects all model years... honestly my wife and I love the car ... but if they drop the range by 20% ... out of principals I will get a lawyer or join a class action lawsuit to get my money back and never buy a Hyundai again

I don’t know how some of you can say it’s ok for them to take 20% away ... no way I would have bought the car if it was advertised as 300-320km of range

 

What happens in markets outside SK is complete speculation at this point.

 

Pretty obvious this “20% range will be dropped” is an unsubstantiated rumor (that even got removed from Korean articles). There is no way the company would of that, given the consequences for their image and their bottom lines.